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To: norton
I'd say that the Catholic Church is an expression of man's desire to dominate and rule other men. If you look at the history, their claim starts with the 4th Pope. He wrote a letter to a church that was having problems. Nobody asked him to write the letter and no one yelled at him for writing the letter. Therefore, he had dominion over the church he wrote the letter to and therefore he was the head of the church and therefore the center of the church is Rome and therefore you salvation is in jeopardy if you disagree.

Many Catholics will mention the keys given to Peter, but this was a later justification.

What's really interesting about the letter is that it proclaims the Phoenix is a real bird and it states that we are justified through faith alone.
61 posted on 12/06/2006 6:28:49 PM PST by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin

"What's really interesting about the letter is that it proclaims the Phoenix is a real bird and it states that we are justified through faith alone."

Is this letter online? I'd be very interested in seeing a translation of it.


165 posted on 12/07/2006 5:09:00 AM PST by Grig
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To: Tao Yin; Grig
What's really interesting about the letter is that it proclaims the Phoenix is a real bird and it states that we are justified through faith alone.

Full transcript of the letter, sometimes called "I Clement" (as in 1st Clement), is here.

The phoenix reference:

Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.

And the faith alone reference:

Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, "Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven." All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Pretty interesting.

305 posted on 12/08/2006 9:12:23 AM PST by Terabitten (How is there no anger in the words I hear, only love and mercy, erasing every fear" - Rez Band)
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