Posted on 12/06/2006 6:48:38 PM PST by blam
We need to do this off of the coast of NC. I have seen the Russian and Japenese trawlers stealing pogies then slip into international waters.
I see it under the 'specialities' in Chinese restaurants also, but it always says "Must Place Order One Week in Advance". Know I think I know why.
>"Religion of Peace" to be firing back at Australians
Any idea what RAAF fighter aircraft at about Mach 1.2, 100 feet over the deck would do to any boat and crew, without ever firing a shot.
PS, they fly the F-18. Mach 1.2, no problem, Mate!
Ugh, what is it with asians and gross eating anyway? I use to work at a fish market years ago and I use to deliver fish to all these restuarants, and the Japanese/Chinese/Korean ones would always want fish heads as well, the stuff we use to throw out. I couldn`t understand why until one afternoon I pulled into the back of this one place and they were on a lunch break eating the heads RAW! Ewwwwwwwww! One guy even told me he likes the eyes. Ewww ewwww! That`s like eating snot!
The headline is ambiguous--I thought it meant the fish were engaging in piracy.
I can't agree with you in this specific instance Hank. Whether or not the concept of national sovereignty is correct, the fact is that at the moment all nations are deemed to be sovereign in that they should not be invaded by other nation states (which is why the war in Iraq is so wrong). Nations with surrounding waters have, by International agreement, a swathe of that water as part of their nation, largely for self protection. Otherwise, at what point can one stop Indonesion incursion? If Indonesions actually landed on Australian soil and started making off with farm produce - cattle for example of which there are thousands in these areas - would you agree that the Australian forces had a right to engage them and stop them? The Indonesians are doing exactly that, as the water for - I think from memory 12 miles - around Australian shores are actually considered a part of Australia.
So these people can fish out their own waters then come and fish out everyone elses? And then land and start stealing cattle?
Australia has tried every reasonable tactic, from repeated representations to the Indonesion Government, to "shooing" these people off, to boarding their boats to tell them they are violating another country, and have met with no success.
Also, a thing not mentioned in mainstream media is the degree of piracy in these waters. These "fishermen" have attacked unarmed civilian boats, both private and commercial, in Australian waters.
If a government can have a moral right, it is to protect those who pay taxes to be protected. In this instance, I'm afraid I agree with actions of the Australian government as long as they restrict it to the Australian International sovereign waters area.
Exactly what is "national sovereignity" when an agency of force arbitrarily declares some portion of the open seas theirs. That is piracy itself. No one owns or has a right to control by force anything they have not earned or produced by their own effort. Let the Aussies catch the sharks and fish, then thy own them, otherwise they are nobodies property, and to claim them without earning the right to them is theft.
Hank
Does the number 11 after your name designate your age?
LOL!!!
That was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the title! Although I imagined the island continent saying to the fish, "Shove off you!"
Hi Weatherwax,
I am familiar with the actual piracy that is rampant in all of what is called Southeast Asia, Australasia and the Southwest Pacific, (and it is increasing and the MSM is ignoring it). This is one of the problems with all such matters--the mixture of principles. True piracy (using force against innocents) and calling "fishing" piracy is a confusion of principles.
Anyone is allowed to sail in Australian waters, for peaceful purposes, wherever they are from. Fish do not have a particular geography, by the way, and no one owns anything until they have earned it.
By the way, no one needs to agree with me, and I appreciate the comments.
Hank
Many Asians feel the same way about fermented milk. It's what you are used to. One man's delicacy is another man's garbage.
Besides, raw fish heads are relatively tame. Try balut and then we'll talk.
Hi Hank,
One of the reasons the Indonesians have a reason to go fishing in Australian waters is because of the efforts made by Australian fishermen to conserve the fish numbers. For many years now, Austarlian fishermen have largely kept to a system of quotas, even now being in the process of voluntarily phasing out trawl and drag fishing, which depletes whole areas not only of the fish but the environment they need in order to reproduce. And they haven't done all this for anyone's benefit but there own.
Indonesia has millions (forget how many) people, and has fished out their waters by undisciplined ignorant wholesale takes. And often wastefully, too. By invading Australian waters they are using the disciplined control of others, whose efforts have largely kept the fish stocks high. Why should the prices Aussies pay for their fish in order to keep the stocks high be used to subsidise the undiscipled behaviour of another nation?
However, I do take your point about claiming an area by force without having produced anything on it. But are you saying now that no-one can own any area, only whatever they produce from it? So can I come and run some sheep on your property, since you cannot own your area, only what you produce? Given that one needs an area of land (or sea) to produce anything, I think that ownership of that basic infrastructure in order to produce has to be possible.
What do you think?
Non initiation of force might be a cool goal within a sovereign group that hasn't been dumb enough to collectively disarm itself (i.e. is strong enough to resist all of the other sovereign groups around it), but to even think for a moment that it's a conceivable philosophy with respect to other large "sovereignities" is just mental masturbation. As another poster put it, where do you draw the line? Is is OK if they peacefully just fish but not steal your cattle? The same concept applies to the cattle. By what "right" did someone make them theirs? Obviously, they were just "appropriated" at some time from nature. So was the steel in your car, mind if I just "take it for a spin"?...
A clarification is needed here. Eliot Richardson's conference on the sea changed the boundary from 3 miles(cannon shot range)to 200 miles, effectively doubling the US area of sovereignty. That's in open waters, adjoining countries split it 1/2 way, correct? This was what my classmate told me, he was a lawyer for Richardson during the conference. Also there is an EEZ (Economic Exclusion Zone) that can be claimed by a country, magnesium nodules on the sea floor, etc......But over-fishing is the real problem here and there are possible solutions...
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