Posted on 12/31/2006 9:33:43 AM PST by kronos77
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=877
"Légion des Volontaires Français (LVF), or Infanterie Regiment 638, as it was know to the Germans, was formed July 1941. It was sent to Debica, Poland, for training and it remained there until Oct when it was sent to the Eastern Front attached to 7. Infanterie-Division. It suffered heavy losses during the Soviet winter offensive and the 2. Battalion was almost destroyed but a 3. Battalion was formed from new volunteers (including some 200 colored, mainly arabs from Algeria).After these losses it operated as individual battalions rather than as a single unit fighting the partisans. It continued fighting the partisans during 1943 but was once again used as a single unit when the all the battalions were attached to 286. Sicherungs-Division.
It merged with Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Sturmbrigade Sep 1944 to form the Waffen-Grenadier Brigade der SS Charlemange."
On April 24, 1945 the last survivors of the 33rd Waffen-SS Charlemagne were transferred to Berlin. They were also the last reinforcements to arrive before the city fell. Only 30 out of 350 survived.
West Africa, not all of Africa.
Nowhere in the article does Sheck give a muslim percentage of those troops.
2/3 of the recruitment pool were Muslims, as Echenberg ably demonstrated. You have since ably demonstrated your willingness to ignore the facts presented by Echenberg.
Sheck stated that 122,000 of them were conscripted in the French West African colonies prior to the 1940 surrender, but only half of those actually made it to France before it fell.
You're either playing with numbers again, or you're lying outright. Scheck is unambiguous in stating that 100,000 troops in France. Two-thirds of them were on the front lines and the rest were completing training behind the lines or in transit. Also, the number of Europeans was, 9,622 -- less than 10%.
"The overall number of Tirailleurs Sénégalais deployed in France between September 3, 1939, and June 25, 1940, was 100,000, but around one-third of them were still in training or in transit when the armistice took effect; see “Troupes Coloniales en 1939 – 1940: La mobilisation et la pe ́ riode d’attente,” L’Ancre d’Or Bazeilles, no. 256 (1990), 27 – 38. For a list of soldiers mobilized in France’s colonies in 1939 – 40, see Fargettas, “Le massacre des soldats,” 2:26. Altogether, over 122,000 people were mobilized in French West Africa before the armistice, including 9,622 Europeans (mostly officers). The Tirailleurs Sénégalais made up the lion’s share of the colonial troops (275,354 men, total), followed by the Indo-Chinese units (88,898 men). "
Some of them even ended up fighting for the Nazis in the aforementioned Vichy colonial units.
Patently false.
I see your command of geography is worse than your command of history.
Not true. The Tirailleurs in WWII included both West and Central African French colonies plus an attachment from Madagascar. Of the three, only West Africa had a substantial muslim population.
Scheck is unambiguous in stating that 100,000 troops in France.
"In the campaign of May–June 1940, approximately sixty-six thousand Tirailleurs Se´ne´galais experienced combat in France" - Scheck
Also, the number of Europeans was, 9,622 -- less than 10%.
9,622/120,000 is 8%. 10% is called rounding, though I have little doubt that you're not beneath quibbling over 2%.
"The overall number of Tirailleurs Sénégalais deployed in France between September 3, 1939, and June 25, 1940, was 100,000, but around one-third of them were still in training or in transit when the armistice took effect
Deployment means being ordered to a position. It does not mean they were in France, and Sheck clearly states that they were still in transit to France.
Deployment in France (Sheck's words) mean they were in France.
It's called playing with the numbers. And since you're entire argument is about the (let's be generous to you) 30,000 Muslim troops of the 18,000,000-strong Nazi forces, I'll say that 2% means a lot to you.
"[Vichy French West Africa Governor General] Boisson exploited the Anglo-Gaullist attack on Dakar and his own fierce resistance to demand that the Germans allow an increase in the size of both the Armée d'Afrique and the colonial army in West Africa to thirty-three thousand men; by mid-1942, it actually approached one hundred thousand men." - French Colonialism Unmasked: The Vichy Years in French West Africa by Ruth Ginio (2006)
mostly the white armée d'afrique i'll bet
Nope. "Before the capitulation some 80,000 African troops had already been sent to France." - Michael Crowder, "Colonial West Africa," 1978, p. 270.
Betting doesn't cut it though, and indisputably they had muslim colonials as well...something that you called "patently false" in a previous post IIRC.
Interesting you mention that. Let's update the known totals of Muslims who fought for the Nazis...
1. 13th, 21st, and 23rd SS - 30,000 muslims between them (21K from the 13th, plus majorities from the 21st and 23rd, which had about 13,000 between them, so 30K is probably pretty accurate).
2. Deutsche Arabisches Infantry Battalion No. 845 - 6,300 Arab Muslim colonial troops
3. Phalange Africana - 400 member arab nazi militia
4. 950th Infantry Regiment "Indian" - 1,600 muslims out of 3,000 troops
5. Légion des Volontaires Français Battalion 3 - at least 200 African muslims
6. Rashid Ali al-Kilani's forces - at least 10,000 based on that many casualties recorded by the British.
7. Osttürkischer Waffen-Verband der SS - 8,500 turkistani and arab members.
That puts our running total at 57,000 right now. Of course we know the total of Nazi muslims is significantly higher than that because there are several known nazi muslim units that we don't have complete figures for yet. Among them:
- The rest of Rashid Ali al-Kilani's army
- Other muslims in the Légion des Volontaires Français
- Muslim members of the 100,000 Vichy French troops under Boisson in French West Africa
- Muslim Bosnians who fought for the Ustashe Nazi Croat regime
- Muslim members of the Kaukasischen Waffen-Verband der SS - had 5,000 total from the Caucases region, including muslim Azerbaijanis.
- SS Waffengruppe "Krim" - number of Chechen muslims
With 57,000 already established, it is not unreasonable to expect that the remainder of the aforementioned units would raise the total muslim nazi count to over 100,000.
Islam is just another name for Nazi with a Prayer rug. Simple.
As far as my comment, "Most Muslims are of ME decent"....I guess I was wrong. I thought that mecca was in Saudi, I suppose that it's in Germany or France. Oh, and the Pilgrims didn't bring their idea of Christianity, they brought prayer rugs instead. Opppps, my fault in not knowing history. lolol...:)
They must pay you well, or they must be wasting their salary for your part time job.
Oh, you are a novice with your methods. I will say they taught you well. I certainly can't ask you to verify much since you don't provide much. You do the old round circle, and use the techniques they taught you to create disinformation among facts.
Dear Kronos: Please read posts 207 and 212 and give me your opinion or response.
Thanks...LIBO
Well, supporting Bosnian islamists Iran made a strike in the haert of the enemy. Sewnding Islamists and aid into creating a islamic state in Europe is much more lucrative idea than fighting for damn hills in Afghanistan.
OK, here I am. What is now wrong with Hoppy?
That was the offending instance - I regret not having been clear from the start.
page #?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.