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To: CitizenUSA
The ban isn't about individual soldiers and whether they can serve honorably or not. It's about military cohesion, discipline, battlefield effectiveness, and fitness.

True, but, as Alter Kaker pointed out, the IDF does fine. Cops and firefighters do fine. Intelligence agencies do fine. The U.S. military is a unique organization, but is it so unique that no comparisons can be drawn from other similar groups?

Military standards concerning sexual behavior apply to heterosexuals, too. For example, if you sleep with your fellow soldier's wife, you can be disciplined and/or separated.

Most military rules regarding sex have been relaxed or eliminted in the last few years. Certainly, no one has been kicked out for sleeping with a fellow soldier's wife in recent memory. Even overt acts within the chain of command, like a commander sleeping with the troops, don't result in separation, just disciplinary action.

Anything, even acts not specifically defined in military law, can be punished if they impact military readiness.

Sure, but we do lots of things that impact military readiness for social reasons. Anything less than a Spartan army of single males impaces military readiness. We make a number of reasonable concessions from there, based on what our society wants. I understand your sentiment, but to say that we do everything from a standpoint of what makes our military more effective simply isn't the case.

16 posted on 01/12/2007 7:48:52 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Steel Wolf

Steel Wolf wrote: "to say that we do everything from a standpoint of what makes our military more effective simply isn't the case."

That a straw man argument. I never said we do everything to make the military more effective, but it SHOULD be a primary concern. As you mention, we are already compromising military effectiveness in some cases by allowing women to serve. For example, many military jobs require a lot of physical strength. Women can do them, but they might need special equipment to compensate for their lower strength (I'm speaking generally here, because some women are just as strong as the typical male). If you delay getting the job done or have to ship, store, or carry more equipment to do the same job, or you have to send more soldiers to do the same job, you are indeed impacting effectiveness. That's the reality of the situation despite the so-called "equality of the sexes."

The fact that you don't see open hostility to women in the service or widespread disorganization doesn't mean a loss of effectiveness isn't taking place, at least in some jobs. It's not like you'd see an organization collapse--the impact might be subtle.

I don't oppose women in the service, btw. Rather, I would like to see honest job requirements and let the chips fall where they may. If you could replace every single male in a certain job with a woman and have absolutely no effect (timeliness of the work accomplished, logistics, etc), then you've probably properly defined the job requirements. And, there are many jobs where women can indeed serve as well as a man.


20 posted on 01/12/2007 8:35:10 AM PST by CitizenUSA
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