Pope speaks out as Italy mulls gay unions (gays protest at Vatican)

INQ7 ^ | January 13, 2006

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict XVI on Thursday reiterated his opposition to civil unions as Italy's government prepares to grant legal recognition to unmarried couples regardless of sexual orientation.

"Plans to give legal recognition to other forms of union (than marriage) ... appear dangerous and counterproductive, because they will inevitably weaken and destabilize the legitimate family based on marriage," he told political leaders of Rome's Lazio region including Rome's left-wing Mayor Walter Veltroni.

The center-left government of Prime Minister Romano Prodi has promised to submit a bill on civil unions -- part of his coalition's election manifesto last April -- by the end of January.

In the meantime parliamentary leaders of several parties making up Prodi's wide-ranging coalition have already developed their own versions of such a law.

Granting legal status to gay couples has been a subject of dispute not only between right and left in socially conservative Italy but also within Prodi's Union coalition.

The coalition includes parties with Catholic or Christian Democrat roots that have come under intense pressure from the Vatican over the proposal.

The pope said Thursday that "the family founded on marriage (is) a basic human good."

He called for measures to help young couples found families by increasing the number of day care centers and elementary schools, boosting employment for young people and bringing down housing costs.

The Italian Senate's justice committee began examining proposals for legalizing civil unions on Wednesday.

[NYer]

Reuters - Sat Jan 13, 9:04 AM ET

Gay and lesbian associations demonstrate on St. Peter's square against Pope Benedict XVI's latest speech on PACS, Italy's proposed social agreement for unmarried couples, at the Vatican January 13, 2007 in Rome. REUTERS/Dario Pignatelli (VATICAN)

AP - Sat Jan 13, 8:56 AM ET

Italian ARCIGAY gay rights association activists hold flags in Rome during a demonstration in front of the Vatican, Saturday Jan. 13, 2007, to remember gay poet Alfredo Ormando who died 11 days after setting himself on fire in St. Peter's Square on Jan. 13, 1998. In background is St. Peter's Basilica. (AP Photo/Andrew Medichini)

[goldstategop]

Its a sign of times. Europe is post-Christian and has signed its own death warrant. Just as well for a continent - and a country on its own demographic deathbed. The boldened presence of the sodomitical element in society is simply confirmation of how everything has turned wrong and not even the Church can reverse it. Now it would take superhuman efforts to save Europe from destined oblivion.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[NYer]

Reuters - Sat Jan 13, 8:38 AM ET Gay and lesbian associations demonstrate on St. Peter's square against Pope Benedict XVI's latest speech on PACS, Italy's proposed social agreement for unmarried couples, at the Vatican January 13, 2007 in Rome. REUTERS/Dario Pignatelli (VATICAN)

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Vatican Document On Homosexual Unions

“Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity,(15) does nothing to alter this inadequacy.”
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

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Catholic Ping List
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[MNlurker]

Its times like this to be thankful that Vatican City is its own country.

[goldstategop]

Celibacy is an example of all that is wrong with the Church. It is dying just as Europe is dying - and without numbers, no future exists either for the Christian faith. The Vatican needs to go back and reread the Bible - it all began with the birth of a child and the West needs more children.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Prodigal Son]

Its a sign of times. Europe is post-Christian and has signed its own death warrant.

??? Californians started all this. But no. Everything's just hunky-dory at home. It's only the evil Euros who do anything bad. Jeez. Talk about selective vision. When we do it, we're the greatest nation on earth. When others do it after we do it- they're doomed.

[Miss Marple]

The Church encourages families. That has nothing to do with priestly celibacy.

Thanks for your advice, all the same.

[NYer]

Celibacy is an example of all that is wrong with the Church.

Celibacy is a discipline obligatory in the Western (Roman Catholic) but not in the Eastern Catholic Churches. It begins with Christ.

The first assertion we still make is that priestly celibacy is relevant because our Lord Jesus Christ is relevant who, consecrated Supreme and Eternal Priest by the Father, chose to live his priesthood in chastity and celibacy. We cannot forget, Pope Paul VI states in the encyclical Sacerdotalis coelibatus, that the Son of God, who assumed a perfect human nature and raised marriage to the dignity of a sacrament, remained throughout his own earthly life in a state of perfect virginity, to signify his total dedication to the service of God and the human race.¹

The relevance of priestly celibacy today

[kinoxi]

'No taliban no Vatican'

How about a sign that says 'I'm an ignorant piece of dung' or something useful like that.

[goldstategop]

Human nature is not capable of divine perfection. In any event, I don't see how Christianity can survive when it is being outbred by Islam. Priestly celibacy is a beautiful ideal, I am sure but it points up in our time the crisis facing both the Church and Europe: new generations faithful to it.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

An example is set at the top. If the Church itself is composed of elderly men who've never been married, how can it set an example for the propagation of the family? Without family there can be no life and without life there is no future. The Holy Father and the Church's prelates in their exaltation of celibacy as an ideal of religious devotion, overlook the fact Jesus was born into a human family. I think it is time to reexamine the Church's priorities.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[AnAmericanMother]

'No taliban no Vatican'

Did I miss Pope Benedict pushing stone walls over on these people?

[Miss Marple]

The priests set an example of devotion to God, as they have given everything up for Him. They set an example of sacrifice, humility, and non-materialism. Their responsibility is to love ALL of the Church, as their family in God.

Forgive me if I sound harsh, but I find it the height of bad manners for you, as a non-Catholic, to lecture Catholics on how they are responsible for the death of Europe....particularly since northern Europe is PROTESTANT, in case you didn't notice. In other parts of the world the population is growing, and I suppose you will blame THAT on the Church as well, and it will be bad because it is a growing body of non-Europeans.

I do not go onto threads and lecture Baptists or Methodists about my perceptions of their church's failings. It is rude and not very Christian, in my opinion. I expect the same courtesy from people who are not Catholic, like you.

[MSSC6644]

I do not go onto threads and lecture Baptists or Methodists about my perceptions of their church's failings. It is rude and not very Christian, in my opinion. I expect the same courtesy from people who are not Catholic, like you.

Time somebody said this. Thank you.

[dcnd9]

Vocations Surge

The Priest Shortage Isn’t Over, But Seminaries Are Filling Up

BY TIM DRAKE

REGISTER SENIOR WRITER

January 14-20, 2007 Issue
http://ncregister.com/site/article/1733

Posted here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1766684/posts

[GSlob]

Set a bunch of Swiss halberdiers on them, but with combat halberds, not with ceremonial ones.

[maryz]

I don't see how Christianity can survive when it is being outbred by Islam.

I thought you were Jewish -- don't you think you should be preaching this particular sermon to Israel (and to American Jews)? Twenty years ago, when Begin was vowing that he would never give up Judea and Shomron, my (Israeli) Hebrew teacher pointed out that, if he didn't, we were looking at a minority-Jewish Israel because of the difference in birth rates. Has anything changed?

[A.A. Cunningham]

Intrinsically disordered

[sgtyork]

Agreed Miss Marple.

How odd that in 2007 celibacy leads to low birth rates, yet 40 years ago Catholicism was known for very large families. Celibacy didn't change, what did?

[Mrs. Don-o]

The social history of celibacy shows no correlation between religious celibacy in a wider religious culture which upholds childbearing, and depopulation.

In fact, there are, for various reasons, positive correlations. The same conservative moral ethos that makes celibacy pausible, makes monogamy plausible. Both associate sexual maturity with constructive self-control: they assume that, for the love of God, an adult will either be celibate and abstain from intercourse, or will be in a faithful marriage and bear and raise children in a God-honoring generous and responsible manner.

In other words, in Orthodox and Catholic and even Buddhist cultures, virtually every adult is expected to be either a monastic or a married man: this same respect for the sanctity of sex manifests in LARGE celibate religious orders, and MANY child-rich families. Example: Quebec, previous to the 1960's.

OTOH, in a corrupt, sensate society that assumes that everybody has to "get some" for personal self-gratification, you see simultaneously VERY FEW celibates, and VERY FEW child-rich families. Like in, f'rinstance, de-Christianized North America and Europe.

A real civilization-buster would be a religious ideology which is against all sex by anyone for any reason, e.g. the Shakers or the Albigensians. They look forward to, and can bring on, the end of (their) world.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I don't think goldstategop is trying to say "the USA is the most, and Europe is toast." We're going the same direction as Europe.

The gays in the USA had sufficient organization/political clout to start dramatically altering public perceptions and policy since 1973 (when they successfully lobbied the APA to drop homosexuality from the list of psychological disorders) --- and the USA's marital birthrate has been below replacement since about 1966.

[Unam Sanctam]

The most orthodox of dioceses are more likely to have the most clerical vocations and the most flourishing Catholic families. Celibacy for priests goes in tandem with families open to the transmission of life.

[Thorin]

>>>>> If the Church itself is composed of elderly men who've never been married, how can it set an example for the propagation of the family?

Somehow, Catholics have managed to reproduce themselves for centuries, despite a celibate priesthood. You do know this, right?

[Miss Marple]

Well, I see that you have disappeared from this thread. I do hope you are reviewing your knowledge of Church and societal history, as well as your manners.

[franky]

Douay-Rheims Bible

"Gospel According to Saint Matthew
Chapter 19-

11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it."

Oh, ye of little faith!