Victim's Mother Wants Accused Returned From Canada (Canada no friend of ours)

AP via KATV ^ | 1/16/2007 | ?

[TheBattman]

Victim's Mother Wants Accused Returned From Canada

Tuesday January 16, 2007 5:35pm

Benton (AP) - The mother of a slain Saline County man says she would be letting her dead son down if she agreed to any prosecution plan that would prevent Arkansas from seeking an accused man's execution.

Timothy Wallace is being held in a Calgary, Alberta, jail pending a return to the U-S. Canada wants an assurance from the United States that Wallace would not be put to death if he is convicted in the 2005 deaths of Billy Hassell and Wallace's former wife Brandy.

Sissy Brady, Hassell's mother, said Canada should return Wallace to face whatever punishment is appropriate.

Wallace's lawyer says Canada's government will not release an inmate to a country that may execute him. Attorney Gregory Dunn says Canadian authorities could release Wallace because he faces no crime in that country.

[TheBattman]

I guess this is why our courts try to use "international law" and the laws of other countries? I guess this is just another case of Canada being no friend of the US - they want to dictate what justice is to us - and control how we punish criminals (murderers).

So basically, if the death penalty is on the table, then they will not extradite this murderer...

[TeenagedConservative]

An absolutely starkly clear example of infringement on our national sovereignty.

[Brucifer]

If Canada wants to have American murderers moving up there to escape punishment, then fine. Sooner or later they'll have to start locking them up themselves, on their dollar. I think it's a bigger problem for Canada than the US.

[ElkGroveDan]

Attorney Gregory Dunn says Canadian authorities could release Wallace because he faces no crime in that country.

I think there's something missing from that sentence. We all face crime every day, as do Canadians.

[CindyDawg]

Keep him then. We can watch him and wait. Our justice system is patient.

[Gay State Conservative]

Canadians see themselves as morally superior (*far* superior) to their neighbors to the south.But then,Mexico believes the same about their northern neighbors.As a result,they won't extradite anyone for the DP thus making their country the destination of choice for all fleeing murderers.

I say we leave them there if they manage to cross the border.Doing so would,I think,cause the Canadians and the Mexicans to ask themselves "do we really want to be seen as nirvana by every two bit American murderer?".

Then they'll change their attitude.

[I see my hands]

"Canadians see themselves as morally superior.."

How Canadiotic of them.

[Jaysun]

We need to assure Canada that we will not administer the death penalty and have them send us all of our criminals. Then we can lock them in a closet with a Luger and whatever happens, happens.

[beelzepug]

If our sovereignty means nothing to them, then why should theirs matter to us. Send a couple of undercovers up there to get him and bring him out. They'll figure out we have him back when they read about the trial.

[conservative in nyc]

An absolutely starkly clear example of infringement on our national sovereignty.

Huh? The criminal isn't in the United States - he's in Canada. Canada is another country. U.S. laws generally don't apply there any more than Canadian laws do here.

OUR national sovereignty isn't being infringed by Canada. If our extradition treaty with them says they don't need to extradite people who are subject to the death penalty, then they don't have to do it.

I don't know why Canada would WANT to coddle our dangerous criminals though. As a practical matter, they should want them to leave the country and not have to pay to keep them in jail.

[prov1813man]

If it were me, I'd tell them to let him go.

[PAR35]

An absolutely starkly clear example of infringement on our national sovereignty.

A starkly clear example of the state of the educational system in your community.

[sgtbono2002]

Let me get this straight. canada has 3 choices.
1. Keeping this killer in jail without trial.
2. Turning a suspected Killer loose.
3. Sending him to the US for trial and possible execution.

If they keep the guy in jail they are paying his expenses and holding him without trial. If they turn him loose he may one day wander back and we get him or they have a killer amongst canadian citizens..

It looks to me like lose --lose for Canada. If they were smart they would give him up.

[digitalbrownshirt]

Anybody rememember Charles Ng back in the 80's? He was a serial rapist/murderer in California. He escaped to Calgary where he was arrested for shoplifting. The Canadians didn't want to send him back because of the DP. He was sentenced to 4 1/2 years in prison for the shoplifting. Reagan told them they could turn him loose on their streets if they didn't want to send him back. His butt was on a plane the same day.

[fanfan]

OUR national sovereignty isn't being infringed by Canada.

LOL!
We're too small to infringe on your National Sovereignty!

If our extradition treaty with them says they don't need to extradite people who are subject to the death penalty, then they don't have to do it.

I don't know why Canada would WANT to coddle our dangerous criminals though. As a practical matter, they should want them to leave the country and not have to pay to keep them in jail.

Trudeau, I'm sure, was responsible for that particular beauty..."We can't send anyone back who might be killed!". *spit* Charles Ing, anyone?

OTOH, in Toronto right now, there is a big debate on the fate of a 67 yr. old woman (illegal alien) from St. Lucia, who needs lifesaving heart surgery.

So far, not too much is known about her, and the operations costs $50,000.

I can't believe it is even a question. There are many 'Canadians' on waiting lists for cardiac procedures, and we are supposed to let this woman get in to the middle, if not top of the list because shes here?

To heck with illegal aliens, and criminals!

[conservative in nyc]

Googling the Ng case, it appears the Supreme Court of Canada has reversed course and now says that extraditing persons potentially subject to the death penalty violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and can't be done except in exceptional circumstances. So even though Article VI of the Extradition Treaty says Canada COULD extradite someone who may be subject to the death penalty if the government wants, the Supreme Court says it usually can't.

I assume we should be blaming Cretin's appointees for that 2001 decision? An anonymous decision, of course.

[Grizzled Bear]

Canadians see themselves as morally superior (*far* superior) to their neighbors to the south.
___________________________________________________________

But don't they have that great "Socialmalized Medicine" up there? I hear it's really great. At least that's what the Canadians who come here for MRIs have been telling me.

[GMMAC]

"Attorney Gregory Dunn says Canadian authorities could release Wallace because he faces no crime in that country."

Dunn must have obtained his law degree - if he has one - via a matchbook cover since the current bilateral & well functioning extradition treaty between our countries has been in place since 1971.

Although I happen to personally favor capital punishment, the only fly in the ointment in this particular matter is Canada's having abolished it here three decades ago and, along with virtually all countries worldwide which have done so, we generally don't permit extradition of fugitives to face same.

All the State which wants Timothy Wallace back needs to do is waive this one particular penalty - which either similarly doesn't exist or is very infrequently applied in the majority of U.S. States anyway - and there's no problem.

Most of the posters on this thread should rightly grow up & try to get it through their heads that moronic & hysterical vilification of their nation's allies is plainly no substitute for legitimate patriotism.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> An absolutely starkly clear example of infringement on our national sovereignty.

No, it's a practical demonstration of Canada's sovereignty. They have captured the scroat for you: and in exchange for this effort expended they require the US to guarantee that he doesn't face the death penalty should he be extradited.

And no, I do not support Canada's stance in this matter: I support the death penalty. But please let's be clear on this: Canada is under no compulsion or obligation to extradite. They have done the hard yards capturing the scroat, and now they demand a price.

They're something like Cyber-Squatters in this respect.

It's a "like-it-or-lump-it" proposition: if you want the scroat turned over by Canada, you will need to guarantee he won't get death. Otherwise, you are free to catch him on your own if/when they release him.

(Hint: catch him on your own. That is what bounty hunters and US Marshals are for, and they are good at what they do. Send in The Dog.)

[TheBattman]

If they were smart they would give him up.

And I think you just answered all questions....

[GMMAC]

Thanks for the support but, not withstanding the liberal-like emotionalism from some of the posters above, there really isn't much of an issue here beyond their brain dead and/or appallingly ill-informed xenophobia.

Canada & the U.S. have maintained mutually satisfactory bilateral extradition treaties for well over a century with the most recent one now going back some 35 years. Out of the literally thousands of mutually beneficial applications of same, cases like the one above likely don't even come up once per year. Aside from claiming some alleged violation of overall U.S. sovereignty being all the more nonsensical in light of the fact only about half a dozen States actually apply the death penalty with anything approaching even vague regularity, logically, self-interest alone precludes Canada turning any accused murderer - foreign or domestic & especially one who has already openly exhibited his intent to evade justice - loose amongst its own citizens.

Any post that begins "Canada no friend of ours" is self-evidently malicious based upon the well known reality of our historic relationship with the U.S.
While some of the comments it's attracted are representative of a small minority on this forum who - in addition to having being told repeatedly by a many times larger group of their own fellow citizens that they're an on-going embarrassment - can't credibly have it both ways: whining their nation has no international friends while at the same time making it abundantly clear their primary mission on Free Republic is habitually tracking down threads concerning America's actual allies in order to spew irrational hatred toward them.

[sgtbono2002]

I think you are right LOL.

[Wallace T.]

I thought the Conservative Party had taken power in Canada. Is the Conservative Party just Canada's equivalent of RINOs?

[absolootezer0]

Doing so would,I think,cause the Canadians and the Mexicans to ask themselves "do we really want to be seen as nirvana by every two bit American murderer?".

won't matter to them. as soon as the person is released from caNADian (or mexican) custody, they can head back across the border. quick name change, and they get all the benefits from being an illegal alien.

[conservative in nyc]

It sounds like the Conservative Party of Canada couldn't extradite this guy even if they wanted to unless the state waives the death penalty - the Canadian Supreme Court won't let them.

Like the Republican Party, the Conservative Party there has its share of RINOs (sometimes called Red Tories) and social conservatives.

[GMMAC]

Aside from the U.S. having a pretty much entirely different historical relationship with Canada than with Mexico (e.g. & unlike the latter, Canada fully participated in the D-Day landing, had a Regiment awarded with a Korean War Presidential Citation and now has Troops routinely receiving American awards for valor in Afghanistan) I find it impossible to believe that you - along with several others on this thread - have even taken the trouble to consult the pertinent Can-Am bilateral Extradition Treaty or you wouldn't be making such ridiculous & insulting remarks.

Rest assured, once the capital punishment issue is resolved - as it always is - this perp is headed nowhere but Stateside, in irons, in the secure custody of U.S. Marshals & ASAP.

[Gay State Conservative]

True or false....when it comes to the two societies in general and their justice systems in particular is it not true that the typical Canadian citizen and politician feels superior to the United States?

[Gay State Conservative]

Actually,on second thought,I'd be in favor of agreeing not to seek the death penalty for this guy,taking custody of him and then allowing Arkansas to seek the DP if the appropriate state authorities deems it reasonable given their state laws.

Then Canada would become the destination of choice for the perpetrator of every murder committed in a state with the DP.

Sorry if you're offended by this but many in this country are getting mighty sick and tired of being told how barbaric we are by countries that should know better.

[Gay State Conservative]

And no, I do not support Canada's stance in this matter: I support the death penalty. But please let's be clear on this: Canada is under no compulsion or obligation to extradite.They have done the hard yards capturing the scroat,and now they demand a price.

Is that to say that Canadian officials have no reason to arrest US citizens who are on the run from a murder charge other than the fact that it helps out US authorities?

[GMMAC]

"... Canada would become the destination of choice for the perpetrator of every murder committed in a state with the DP." Given, this situation hasn't even arisen an average of once per year since Canada abolished the capital penalty back in 1976, surely you can't believe this is all that likely ???

If only for the sake of its own international credibility, there isn't a chance a chance in Hell Washington would ever permit Arkansas or any other individual State to go back on its word.

I'm certainly not offended with you sharing my views & those of roughly half of all Canadians when it comes to favoring the death penalty.
What's offensive is going off half cocked - & you not nearly as bad as some on this thread - by assuming the worst about any neighbor without first checking out the facts. Also, the "barbaric" thing is hardly international phenomenon ... at least in Can-Am relations:
Liberals on both sides of the border consider us both barbaric & we view them as bleeding hearts - end of story.

As for your post #29, both Canada the U.S. are quite clearly obligated to respectively detain & accede to the extradition of those named in each others arrest warrants when it comes to virtually all serious and/or violent crimes under the terms of our (1971) bilateral Treaty.

There likely isn't even a single case per year where the death penalty becomes an issue both because relatively not that many murderers manage to sneak across our borders and, in your own case, you can quite literally count on your fingers the States which ever have any problem with this status quo. Those that do, eventually waive asking for the death penalty to remain on the table since, other than possibly with Texas or Florida, it isn't even a problem once a decade.

[imintrouble]

Canada's whole backbone and intent is to be as anti-American and cross our nation at every conceivable point.

Their s**t-nose attitude gets to me while they stand there pointing fingers and doing nothing.

Whatever has turned that country into a bunch of sissies I have no idea but it is indigestible.

[carolinalivin]

CA is letting the 600+ death rowers live til they die of old age. I suggest we parole them to Ottawa, Paris, and Mexico City and revoke their american citizenship.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Is that to say that Canadian officials have no reason to arrest US citizens who are on the run from a murder charge other than the fact that it helps out US authorities?

Not really -- it means that Canada has (for better or worse) abolished the Death Penalty and is a signator to a UN convention to that effect. As such, Canada cannot extradite this scroat to the US, knowing that he will face risking the death penalty, without contravening its own (perhaps misguided?) principles, to say nothing of its obligations to the UN.

Do I agree with this? It doesn't really matter that I don't, personally. That is the well-known national policy of Canada, and until the laws there change, it is likely to stay that way.

What they are saying is "gottim, guys. If you want him, you can have him and we can save you the need to chase him further. Lock him up forever if that is what your Justice system demands. Our only requirement is that if we hand him over to you, his life cannot be forfeit, because we will not be complicit in something that is fundamentally un-Canadian and contrary to our laws: that is to say, the Death Penalty."

Canada and the US enjoy good bilateral extradition, and plenty of scroats cross the border in handcuffs each year to face Justice on the other side of the border.

To say "Canada is no friend of (the US)" is a gross injustice and horribly unfair.

[Gay State Conservative]

What they are saying is "gottim, guys. If you want him, you can have him and we can save you the need to chase him further. Lock him up forever if that is what your Justice system demands. Our only requirement is that if we hand him over to you, his life cannot be forfeit, because we will not be complicit in something that is fundamentally un-Canadian and contrary to our laws: that is to say, the Death Penalty."

OK...so I,the Attorney General of the United States or of the state seeking to try the murderer,replies...."fine,keep him then.We'll just wait until he escapes from prison (assuming that you imprison him) and tries to re-enter the United States".

When word gets out that that's our policy,Canada will become the destination of choice for every murderer we have.Then Canada will understand that upholding one's "principles" sometimes carries a high price.

To say "Canada is no friend of (the US)" is a gross injustice and horribly unfair.

I can understand your unfamiliarity with the state of relations between,and the attitudes between,the US and Canada and the citizens of the two countries given the fact that you're living on the other side of the planet.I live a three hour drive from the Canadian border and am,as a result,frequently reminded of the contempt and disdain that the typical Canadian has for this country.

But then,hatred of the United States has recently become very chic in a way that the Finns could have only dreamed of from the 50's until about 1991.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> When word gets out that that's our policy,Canada will become the destination of choice for every murderer we have.Then Canada will understand that upholding one's "principles" sometimes carries a high price.

Yup, and so far as I'm personally concerned, serve 'em right if it happened exactly like you say: I'm in complete agreement with you on that matter. As a private individual I am completely in favor of the Death Penalty and will go one further: were there a call for Volunteers I would offer to carry out sentence. Howzzat?

> can understand your unfamiliarity with the state of relations between,and the attitudes between,the US and Canada and the citizens of the two countries given the fact that you're living on the other side of the planet.

For the avoidance of doubt and for clarity and full disclosure: I was born and raised in Vancouver Canada and have seen more of the USA, state-by-state, than most US Citizens. Still, that was about 15 years ago.

> I live a three hour drive from the Canadian border and am,as a result,frequently reminded of the contempt and disdain that the typical Canadian has for this country.

I grant that some Canadians are extremely rude and, well, their behavior is not pretty and it does not do Canada any credit. Not all Canadians are like that, only the loudest and most obnoxious are.

Speaking personally, I always enjoyed the friendship and hospitality of my American neighbors and never once would ever dream being unkind or rude to them for any reason: and certainly not on the basis of my nationality. Even though I may not see eye-to-eye with them on some fairly significant matters. Canadians are (or should be) polite, kind, helpful and considerate members of the International community: those who are not are boors and a national disgrace, rightly to be held in abject contempt.

> But then,hatred of the United States has recently become very chic in a way that the Finns could have only dreamed of from the 50's until about 1991.

I am reminded of Gordon Sinclair's iconic broadcast in the '70's, simply titled "The Americans". To me, it was one truly Great Canadian's very valid views of our most valued friends and neighbors: Sinclair spoke my opinion eloquently and completely and without demur. I used to have a copy of it, maybe it is around here somewhere. Otherwise do a Google if you are interested: when you find it you will see exactly where I sit and what I believe, as a Canadian (who is now a Kiwi).

Kind regards, my FRiend
*DieHard*

[exg]

http://www.renc.igs.net/~tcollier/thanks%20Canada.htm

[imintrouble]

Thank you - I needed that reminder - well said.

[exg]

Thank You
and, you're very welcome FRiend.