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Details emerge of gunmen, posing as soldiers, attacking U.S. troops in Iraq
Real Cities ^ | Jan. 21, 2007 | Leila Fadel and Hussan Ali

Posted on 01/21/2007 4:19:49 PM PST by TexKat

KARBALA, Iraq - Chilling details emerged Sunday of gunmen posing as American and Iraqi soldiers in an ambush on U.S. troops in Karbala a day earlier that killed five Americans and wounded three.

On Saturday, a civil affairs team of American soldiers sat with local leaders in Karbala's provincial headquarters to discuss security for Ashoura, a Shiite commemoration of the massacre of the revered Imam Hussein that began Sunday.

Outside, danger was approaching. A convoy of seven white GMC Suburbans sped toward the building, breezing through checkpoints, with the men wearing American and Iraqi military uniforms and flashing American ID cards, Iraqi officials said. The force stopped at the police directorate in Karbala and took weapons but gave no reason, said police spokesman Capt. Muthana Ahmed in Babel province.

A call was made to the provincial headquarters to inform them an American convoy was on its way, said the governor of Karbala, Akeel al-Khazaali. But the Americans stationed inside the building, which acts as a coordination center for Iraqi officials, Iraqi security forces and U.S. forces, had not been informed, Iraqi officials said.

As the U.S. soldiers and the Iraqis scrambled to figure out if the men were Americans or an illegally armed group, the convoy arrived and the gunmen tried to break in.

The gunmen launched grenades, mortars and small arms fire, according to a U.S. military statement. The U.S. military said Sunday it was still not clear if the gunmen were Sunni or Shiite militia. Abu Abdullah, a commander in Karbala of the Mahdi Army, the militia led by firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, on Sunday denied involvement in the attack.

(Excerpt) Read more at realcities.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq; karbala; karbalaattack; karbalattack; kerbalaattack; wot
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Iraqi policemen man a checkpoint at the entrance of the holy city of Karbala, central Iraq. At least 25 US troops were killed across Iraq in one of the deadliest days for the American forces since the invasion began, as the military said 3,200 new troops had arrived to quell Baghdad violence.(AFP/Mohammed Sawaf)

1 posted on 01/21/2007 4:19:50 PM PST by TexKat
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To: TexKat
Leila Fadel and Hussan Ali

No thanks.

2 posted on 01/21/2007 4:21:19 PM PST by SolidWood (Sadr lives. Kill him.)
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To: jmc1969; Dog; SunkenCiv; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Marine_Uncle; La Enchiladita; Americanexpat; ...

Details emerge of gunmen, posing as soldiers, attacking U.S. troops in Iraq ping.


3 posted on 01/21/2007 4:25:37 PM PST by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: SolidWood

Ok!


5 posted on 01/21/2007 4:26:15 PM PST by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: TexKat
If we lived in the real world this attack would be justification for a 'take no enemies' campaign by the American troops, meaning shoot to kill anyone that displays a weapon of any kind, and shoot to kill when any vehicle fails to stop at a check point. There should be NO free passes for any vehicle, let alone a convoy. That convoy should have been picked up and shadowed by gunship helicopters and destroyed the first time it attempted to bypass a checkpoint. Real American troops would have no qualms about stopping for a checkpoint.

Even the flashing of American ID's should not have allowed this to happen. The Americans in that meeting would be aware of any movement of our forces into their area and an American convoy acting like this would deserve to come under friendly fire.

The new rule has simply got to be to shoot first and ask questions later. No more Mr. Nice Guy, no more Good Cop. Give everyone, every sect, reason to fear for their safety if they are seen with weapons or in the judgment of OUR troops are acting in a threatening manner.

Time to invoke the "USS Vincennes" rule. If they act like enemy take at their word and react appropriately!
6 posted on 01/21/2007 4:46:52 PM PST by jwparkerjr
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP; dixiechick2000; Grampa Dave; Interesting Times; Liz; ...











  



  

7 posted on 01/21/2007 4:46:54 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: devolve

Very nice devolve!


8 posted on 01/21/2007 4:49:08 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch


Thanks potlatch!

That's my new "SNL-I'm-1/2-Black-Hillary.gif"

--

"Let's begin the (controlled) conversation....."

-- Hillary's website announcement

--

"We going to take things from you on behalf of the common good....."

-- Hillary's San Francisco speech


9 posted on 01/21/2007 4:58:31 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: devolve

--

"I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants"
Hillary said February 2003 to an audience of WABC radio in New York.


She even suggested that her mind was open to the idea of a national ID "even for citizens.


10 posted on 01/21/2007 5:07:07 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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They should announce a policy of a death penalty for anyone pretending to be soldiers with the addition of being buried alive wearing a pigs head.

It worked 100 years ago....


11 posted on 01/21/2007 5:30:39 PM PST by wodinoneeye
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To: potlatch


Ah!

Excellent find potlatch!

I gotta save this one!

There must be an audio .mp3 somewhere!


12 posted on 01/21/2007 5:48:18 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: TexKat; Americanexpat

Placemark and ping. I'll be back shortly...


13 posted on 01/21/2007 5:50:24 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: wodinoneeye

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

There is a lot of interesting reading at this link, including links to a couple of old 1930s books on the fight against the Moros.


14 posted on 01/21/2007 5:51:26 PM PST by ansel12 (America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.)
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To: devolve; ntnychik; PhilDragoo; dixiechick2000; bitt

Another accurate quote but I didn't save the source;

Hillary;
"People will be attacking you instead of your ideas, they may impugn your patriotism, they may even say you're angry. If they do that, wear it as a badge of honor"

I have a 'Notepad' with some very scary quotes from Hillary about childrearing. In the early '70's she was hired by Marian Edelman as a research assistant by the Carnegie Council on Children.

They started with the assumption that the triumph of the “universal entitlement state” was an inevitability, and the best thing Americans could do for their children was to hasten its arrival.

The chapter entitled, “Protection of Children Rights,” the section on which Hillary worked, observes that “it has become necessary for society to make some piecemeal accommodations to prevent parents from denying children certain privileges that society wants them to have.”

in November 1973 in the Harvard Educational Review, she advocated liberating our “child citizens” from the “empire of the father.”

In Hillary’s own words, “The basic rationale for depriving people of their rights in a dependency relationship is that certain individuals are incapable or undeserving of the right to take care of themselves and consequently need social institutions to safeguard their position…….. Along with the family, past and present examples of such arrangements include marriage, slavery, and the Indian reservation system.”

Hillary really does believe it "takes a Village" or perhaps we should just call it a commune!


15 posted on 01/21/2007 6:04:21 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch


I gotta save and follow these up

Nice work potlatch!


16 posted on 01/21/2007 6:09:25 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: devolve

If you are really interested in that I can copy the whole notepad for you as I left over half of the information out.

She really believes the 'state' should have control of children and that is very frightening.


17 posted on 01/21/2007 6:11:58 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: TexKat; devolve; potlatch

I thought we were going to have a thread to discuss Karbala but it has been hijacked.

Can't you photoshop people start your own thread?


18 posted on 01/21/2007 6:57:54 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: La Enchiladita

I apologize La Dita!


19 posted on 01/21/2007 7:00:35 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: La Enchiladita; TexKat

This is very disturbing. It seems as if there must have been a fair amount of infiltration in advance, first of all, to know about the meeting, and secondly, to get all of the disguise material together. I can't imagine that US uniforms are casually passed around.

Furthermore, how did they convince the people at the checkpoints that they were Americans? I suppose that perhaps just the ID cards were sufficient to do it. But at one point it says that they stopped at a police station and collected the weapons. Do you suppose perhaps there was actually an American among them? Very creepy thought.


20 posted on 01/21/2007 7:04:08 PM PST by livius
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To: TexKat; SolidWood
Some details are different: white Suburbans instead of black SUVs. Also, not all of the attacking militia dispersed upon return to Babel, but apparently some were apprehended by Iraqi police and are now in U.S. custody.

Obviously, someone in Karbala tipped off the "militia" to the U.S. presence at the provincial HQ. The question would be how many Iraqis on the Karbala end were involved; were our guys set up? Abu Abdullah, a commander in Karbala of the Mahdi Army, the militia led by firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, on Sunday denied involvement in the attack.

On another note, Solid Wood, what is the problem with the authors of the article? Thanks.

21 posted on 01/21/2007 7:20:44 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: livius

I was reading, thinking and writing while you were posting, but we arrived at similar thoughts/questions. In fact, a suspicion re American involvement occurred to me earlier. VERY creepy ...


22 posted on 01/21/2007 7:24:26 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: livius

It's a Shiite town. Which means Shiite guards, Shiite police and Shiite attackers. Probably retaliation from Iran/Al Sadr due to recent pressure from the US up in Baghdad.


23 posted on 01/21/2007 7:38:05 PM PST by Justa (Politically Correct is morally wrong.)
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To: La Enchiladita

Could these infiltrators be Iranians???


24 posted on 01/21/2007 7:44:24 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

Yes, they could. We are noting more and more Iranian involvement in Iraq.


25 posted on 01/21/2007 7:51:25 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: TexKat

Thanks TK for both topics and pings.

25 U.S. troops killed in Iraq Saturday
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq | January 21, 2007 | BUSHRA JUHI
Posted on 01/21/2007 10:58:14 AM EST by TexKat
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1771140/posts


26 posted on 01/21/2007 7:55:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: La Enchiladita

My problem with MSM articles from Iraq, is the fact they are almost exclusively Reuters/AP/AFP written by Sunni Muslims with dubious loyalty, often quoting dubious sources or unauthorized sources. Several such reports have turned out to be bogus or details contradicting.

I'm only cautious to any such reports. I trust only authorized official US/MNF releases and statements.


27 posted on 01/21/2007 10:22:09 PM PST by SolidWood (Sadr lives. Kill him.)
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To: SolidWood

Thanks for that... it's helpful.


28 posted on 01/21/2007 10:23:33 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: La Enchiladita

Thanks for the ping.


29 posted on 01/22/2007 12:20:38 AM PST by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: Justa; La Enchiladita

Thanks. Then that would mean that some of the guard posts were in on it?

I also read a longer report this morning that said all of the attackers spoke English. They had American uniforms and more American uniforms were found in the SUV that they had travelled in.

Fortunately, the authorities seem to have caught several of them alive and have them in custody, and I hope they're interrogating away even as we speak. I doubt that we'll ever hear anything more about it publicly, however.


30 posted on 01/22/2007 4:02:46 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

Maybe they made the uniforms - had muzzie women sew them?


31 posted on 01/22/2007 5:36:35 AM PST by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: La Enchiladita

Maybe Sadr was okay with the way things were going until Maliki said he would amp up the pressure on the Shia and we decided to send more troops, so now Sadr is giving a taste of what he plans to do about it.

Letting Sadr off the hook was as big a mistake as standing down in Afghanistan when we had Bin Laden. Actually, Sadr was a bigger mistake.

This is what happens when you appease the enemy.


32 posted on 01/22/2007 5:40:24 AM PST by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: La Enchiladita

They watch Pelosi and many others on C-Span and CNN. This may be the needed last push to get the U.S. to stand down completely.


33 posted on 01/22/2007 5:42:51 AM PST by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: livius

I don't know, but I think they must have had accomplices in the Iraqi police/army, either feeding them information or actively helping them by waving them through, supplying them with uniforms, etc.


34 posted on 01/22/2007 5:51:57 AM PST by SpringheelJack
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To: La Enchiladita; leadpenny; livius; SpringheelJack; Americanexpat

Karbala's governor addresses a news conference in the holy Iraqi city on Monday.

Karbala attackers posed as U.S. military officials

KARBALA, Iraq (CNN) -- Attackers who killed five U.S. troops at a government building in Karbala posed as U.S. military officials to get past Iraqi guards, a Karbala police spokesman said.

The attack happened Saturday as the U.S. military convened a meeting to discuss security for Ashura, the upcoming Shiite pilgrimage to Karbala.

According to police spokesman Abdul Rahman al-Mishawi, about 30 gunmen traveling in a convoy of at least seven SUVs with tinted windows -- similar to the vehicles used by top U.S. military officials -- drove up to the Karbala Provincial Joint Coordination Center wearing uniforms similar to those worn by the U.S. military.

About a dozen U.S. troops were inside the compound at the time, al-Mishawi said.

Around 5:45 p.m., the gunmen cleared an Iraqi police checkpoint outside the center by flashing fake identification badges and speaking some English, al-Mishawi said.

more...

New thread over here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1771600/posts

35 posted on 01/22/2007 7:09:42 AM PST by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Justa

Wrong!
The attackers came from the province of Babel according to the article. This province has a mixed population and a highly active sunni insurgency in the southern edge (bordering Karbala). Its what people call 'the triangle of death' as it involves three towns with sunni population. This area is also famous for countless abductions and beheadings, including beheadings of foreigners.
This well organized attack is clearly the work of sunni insurgency as the rag-tag army of Muqtada Al-Sadr is not up to it. Just shows who is the real evil in Iraq.


36 posted on 01/22/2007 12:12:23 PM PST by Mr_Tiki
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To: TexKat
One can only hope this is an isolated event that will not continue to happen as our forces attempt integrated missions with the Iraqi forces.
We mourn the losses of our men, but at the same time should remember small groups of American soldiers and Marines have for the past few years been operating in enclaves, a few of us amoung many of them with positive results.
A note I failed to make notice of on your ping regarding the Allawi interview. He seems not to understand what a civil war means. At least not in the context of historical civil wars. I continue to believe a lot is lost in translations, and how mideasterner's for instance ideas of some given thing would differ with westerner's thoughts.
37 posted on 01/22/2007 5:30:22 PM PST by Marine_Uncle
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To: Mr_Tiki
Dude please, I've been living and working in Iraq for nearly 3 years now. My first year was in Babylon right outside Al Hillah. And Karbala is NW of of Al Hillah not south. And the 'triangle of death' is nothing more than a corridor of Sunnis living in close proximity to the highway which Saddam relocated there years ago. The Sunnis in that region are basically thugs and interlopers having previously been used by Saddam to keep the area's Shiites down and the roads open.

I guessed it was Shiites because the two groups have different demeanor and bearing and are easy to tell apart. I.e. Sunnis avoid the south now because they stick out and aren't appreciated by the locals if you know what I mean. That's why there isn't much media coverage of the south, the Iraqi 'media' are Sunni insurgents toting cameras and wouldn't last long in Shiite areas.

However, having said all that and in light of new information that some of the attackers were caught I'd have to agree that the attackers are Sunni. Al Hillah does have some Sunnis and they're hard core thugs, many are ex-Republican Guards and current insurgents. They used to run the Hadji Bazaar on Bablylon, complete with blast and bullet scars, injuries and even bleeding wounds. I doubt it was locals rather probably some associates from Baghdad or Al Queada.

The intent of the attack seems to have been to impede security operations to support intended attacks against Shiite pilgrims during Ashura.

38 posted on 01/22/2007 7:04:34 PM PST by Justa (Politically Correct is morally wrong.)
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To: devolve; potlatch; Cindy; Lady Jag; Kathy in Alaska

Nice one Devolve!

Did you by chance see this one...?


39 posted on 01/22/2007 7:10:53 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (OPM - The Liberal 'solution' to every societal problem. (Other People's Money))
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To: Jezebelle; TexKat; Americanexpat; SolidWood; Thunder90; SpringheelJack; leadpenny

To state it briefly and bluntly, the generals were in a position to crush al Sadr in April-May 2004, when he operated in Najaf... basically thumbing his nose at us out in the open... but the interim government nixed it. That was also when we could have levelled Fallujah, and avenged the death, torture, mutilations of our American contractors.

But the U.S already had a view to "hearts and minds," caved in to warnings from the "Governing Council" and adopted a middle course, i.e., appeasement.

I haven't gotten around to reading *My Year in Iraq* by Paul Bremer and don't know if I will, but it covers that time frame. We learn, over and over again, that the military has been constrained from doing what they want to do and can do.

Now, as you pointed out Jezebelle, with the ascendance of Nancy Pelousy and the Cut'n'Run crowd, it is like another, brighter green light to al Sadr. They do watch our traitor media, for sure.

The best outcome of this is that their boldness makes them careless AND that our newly installed military leadership has an EVEN BRIGHTER green light to finally take out the "Mahdi Army."


40 posted on 01/22/2007 7:24:06 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: potlatch; Seadog Bytes


Bump -


41 posted on 01/22/2007 7:40:49 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: jwparkerjr
If we lived in the real world this attack would be justification for a 'take no enemies' campaign by the American troops...

This is why I wanted us out four years ago. We are so scared that we'll be viewed as barbarians by the world that we'll let ourselves be martyred first. The world is going to hate us no matter what. If you can't be loved, then be feared. We are doing neither.

42 posted on 01/22/2007 7:46:32 PM PST by adam_smith_76
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To: adam_smith_76
If you can't be loved, then be feared.

Machiavelli! I've always admired that view...

43 posted on 01/22/2007 7:49:10 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: Seadog Bytes

Right-on-target...thanks for the ping Seadog Bytes.


44 posted on 01/22/2007 7:55:27 PM PST by Cindy
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To: Justa

Thanks for the information. However, would there be Sunnis at the Karbala end to help set this up, as there appears to be? Also, the meeting being held in the compound was to plan security for the SHIITE Ashura pilgrimage, yet not one of those Shiite police officers or soldiers were killed or even shot at. The target was purely U.S. soldiers....


???


45 posted on 01/22/2007 7:55:35 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: devolve; Seadog Bytes

Re-Bump!!


46 posted on 01/22/2007 8:02:39 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; dixiechick2000; Grampa Dave; Seadog Bytes


PC war and pansy Congress

Would the US let Germany or Japan tell our Generals what to do in 1949?





47 posted on 01/22/2007 8:15:37 PM PST by devolve ( ........"refresh" my (updated) graphics posts)
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To: Justa

Justa,
First, I admire and commend your efforts in Iraq.
I meant to say Hilla is on the west. But I guess you are familiar with the area.
Actually, I am an Iraqi American born in Najaf, not far from Karbala and Hilla!
When I first heard of this incident, I immediatly thought it is Sunni insurgents, because I know they are much more capable than the bandits of Sadr. Now with the news that those involved spoke English, etc, it makes me think that they are some highly organized Al-qaeda perhaps.
I guess we will know more in the coming days.

Its heart breaking to hear of these loses. Its also bad news as it would make the cooperation between US and Iraqi troops even more complicated.
Stay safe, and best wishes.


48 posted on 01/22/2007 8:52:47 PM PST by Mr_Tiki
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To: adam_smith_76
At some point we are going to have to adopt the policy that we don't go in unless we intend to use our military forces as they are designed to be use.

In retrospect I confess I was taken in by the tough talk of the administration, not to mention the way they handled Afghanistan. I really thought we had learned our lesson and this war would be different. Sigh.

I think most of us realized we were in trouble when the forces would sweep through a town or area, claim victory, and them move on to the next one, only to have total lawlessness break out as soon as they left. Rampant looting and roaming gangs of armed men were the unmistakable signs of a big problem.

I must hasten to mention though that all of this is in hindsight and based on what we see there now.

We're a day late and a dollar short, but we have got to get serious and let our troops do what troops do or bring them home. And this, of course, is the Democratic Plan, the same plan they used with great success in Vietnam. Make so much noise, be so disruptive and so obstructionist that the war in Iraq goes on and on, until they can cut off funding and withdraw.

The scary part is that it's going just like it did with Vietnam, almost like it's on auto pilot. Talk, talk, talk. Plan, plan, plan. Meanwhile the citizenry are growing tired and tireder and American lives continue to be lost on a daily basis.

I am old enough to have lived through the Vietnam debacle and our defeat by the MSM/Lefties. Trust me, this is exactly the way it went then. I was in the news business and recall vividly how every report from there was bad news, making it look like we were losing on every front. Meanwhile our troops were doing exactly what they are the best on Earth at doing, defeating enemy troops. And the harder they fought to win, the more we were told how it was hopeless and we losing battle after battle.

We keep hearing that this is not Vietnam. And that's true, right now. But it won't be true in a couple of years unless someone with some authority recognizes the pattern of winning the war militarily, but losing in the MSM.
49 posted on 01/23/2007 5:05:40 AM PST by jwparkerjr
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To: jwparkerjr

Vietnam, that was when the media divorced the civilians of this country from the military.


50 posted on 01/23/2007 7:21:34 AM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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