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To: kabar
The point is that America's depravity had little to nothing to do with the downfall of the Shah.

I never argued that it did. I was trying to explain why I think D'Souza's book is on target. By way of illustration, I pointed out that my Iranian students very quickly developed a hatred FOR THE UNITED STATES because they came to see us as depraved.

As for the reasons for the student influx at the time of the Shah's fall, I can only point out that the numbers support my point: Iranian students--many of them totally unfamiliar with America and even with the English language--came to this country in droves in the years immediately before the Shah's fall. Were they afraid of the Shah? Well, that may be why they put bags on their heads at demonstrations against his regime!

59 posted on 01/24/2007 9:56:13 AM PST by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: madprof98
By way of illustration, I pointed out that my Iranian students very quickly developed a hatred FOR THE UNITED STATES because they came to see us as depraved.

You must have had a unique group of students. The only "hatred" I have observed related to the US involvement in the 1953 coup involving the overthrow of Mossadegh. The idea that these students just learned of American culture when they came to the US is nonsense. As I indicated, there were over 70,000 Americans in Tehran. American culture and influence abounded. I have no idea what constitutes depravity, but there were nightclubs and bars in Iran. There were prostitutes and other such vices. Iranians were free to travel with many of them being educated in the West. American music was everywhere along with women dressed in tight jeans. There was untrammeled access to information.

I was present in Iran after Khomeini took over. Iranian women were forced to wear chadors overnight. Women went from one of the freest, most liberal societies in the Muslim world to one of the strictist. The Mullahs hijacked the Revolution and enforced their rules in much the same way as the Taliban. The current unhappiness with the current regime in Iran comes mainly from the students.

As for the reasons for the student influx at the time of the Shah's fall, I can only point out that the numbers support my point: Iranian students--many of them totally unfamiliar with America and even with the English language--came to this country in droves in the years immediately before the Shah's fall. Were they afraid of the Shah? Well, that may be why they put bags on their heads at demonstrations against his regime!

You linked the influx [using just a three year span] to increased oppression by the Shah. In fact, the increase you point to occurred during a period of less repression, at our urging. Those years were marked increasingly by demonstrations, strikes, electricty cut offs, and bombings of movie theaters. Life in Iran in 1978 became increasingly uncomfortable and dangerous. I am sure that some of those students came here to escape just that.

As I mentioned, there was a coaltion of groups that opposed the Shah and wanted him replaced. The students in the US came from fairly well off families. They were not the children of the poor and uneducated. Carter's human rights policies played into the hands of those wishing to overthrow the Shah. There was a significant Iranian exile population in the US who helped foment demonstrations in the US. Many like Yazdi, went back to Iran, after the Revolution to become part of the new government. Eventually, the mullahs got rid of them, including by executing them.

Of course the demonstrators were afraid of the Shah and Savak. But they shouldn't have been because Carter and Vance had put them on a short leash. We essentially greased the way for the ousting of the Shah and the takeover by Khomeini. Carter's human rights policy cost us valuable listening stations on the Caspian that were monitoring Soviet nuclear tests and allowed the current world's biggest state sponsor of terrorism to infect the world with militant Islamic fundamentalism.

The Iranian Revolution was all about power, not hatred of American "depravity." I am sure if they took a real poll in Iran today, most of the people like and respect the US and want us back.

Regime Change Iran

63 posted on 01/24/2007 11:20:28 AM PST by kabar
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