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To: <1/1,000,000th%; Physicist
The penalty, of course, to assuming super-heavy stars very early in the universe is that you generate black holes (after the supernova) that tend to recapture the ejected material.

Alternate: If the superstar dust cloud mass is enough to form a black hole, and the dust cloud collapse time is as short as indicated above (< 3/4 million years) then what would prevent the black hole from forming before or during stellar evolution: at a period when all of its material would go down the hole and none be available for ejection?

We still would assume that the time, heat and pressure to go from first fusion (H + H and H - D, etc) to second generation fusion ... up to the final layer is not enough to overcome the black hole limits of gravity and distance.
67 posted on 02/16/2007 8:44:59 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
The penalty, of course, to assuming super-heavy stars very early in the universe is that you generate black holes (after the supernova) that tend to recapture the ejected material.

A black hole has no more ability to recapture the ejecta than any other body of the same mass. The gravitational field is the same outside of the radius of the pre-collapse core.

Alternate: If the superstar dust cloud mass is enough to form a black hole, and the dust cloud collapse time is as short as indicated above (< 3/4 million years) then what would prevent the black hole from forming before or during stellar evolution: at a period when all of its material would go down the hole and none be available for ejection?

Newton's laws. When the core collapses, all of that gravitational potential energy is released. It can't all just "fall down the hole". Now remember, that energy is ALL being released within the center of the star, and it is going to be imparted to the surrounding mantle.

Now think about this: the thermal heat of the star, prior to core collapse, was enough to support the mantle. It wasn't falling into the core, except perhaps slowly. In a few tens of milliseconds, that energy density is exceeded by tens of orders of magnitude, and you expect the mantle to fall inwards?

That's not to say that supermassive black holes didn't form in this period. They did. There are trillions of galaxies in our Hubble volume, and many contain million-solar-mass black holes at their cores. So there might be a trillion of those within causal reach. Wow!

We still would assume that the time, heat and pressure to go from first fusion (H + H and H - D, etc) to second generation fusion ... up to the final layer is not enough to overcome the black hole limits of gravity and distance.

I didn't understand that.

68 posted on 02/16/2007 9:14:19 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE; Physicist

Hey!

This is starting to get interesting.


69 posted on 02/16/2007 11:46:15 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

The weak force is the force that induces beta decay via interaction with neutrinos. A star uses the weak force to "burn" (nuclear fusion). Three processes we observe are proton-to proton fusion, helium fusion, and the carbon cycle. Here is an example of proton-to-proton fusion, which is the process our own sun uses: (two protons fuse -> via neutrino interaction one of the protons transmutes to a neutron to form deuterium -> combines with another proton to form a helium nuclei -> two helium nuclei fuse releasing alpha particles and two protons). The weak force is also necessary for the formation of the elements above iron. Due to the curve of binding energy (iron has the most tightly bound nucleus), nuclear forces within a star cannot form any element above iron in the periodic table. So it is believed that all higher elements were formed in the vast energies of supernovae. In this explosion large fluxes of energetic neutrons are produced which produce the heavier elements by nuclei bombardment. This process could not take place without neutrino involvement and the weak force.


74 posted on 02/16/2007 2:35:53 PM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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