FRENCH NAZI COLLABORATOR - Maurice Papon is dead

I forgot to add that my uncle was a French Jew. His family escaped and was very successful in the US, but they never forgot the traitorous actions of some in their home country.

My aunt married a very sucessfull Jew from New York after the war while my grandfather was a very sucessfull pilot of the Luftwaffe (Wehrmacht) in WWII. Today I have a jewish part of my family in the US and Israel, an French part in Paris (one of my uncles went to Paris and married a beautiful French wife) and last but not least my own family here in Germany. You see - fate can be a strange bird and I am sitting between all chairs.

My personal experience concerning my family is that all members of "my tribe" do not differ very much from each other. We might have different professions but we are all very good in the things we are doing and we have a strong interest of each other. No matter if we live in New York or in Paris.

The family of my uncle in New York originally came from the Minsk area. All remaining 44 members disappeared during the war and the holocaust. His parents were able to escape in the right time.

My granddad was a member of the German airforce since 1934 and served as a flight instructor until 1944. He was originally too important to be "burned" at the front. That changed when the tactical situation of Germany turned into hopelessness. Between 1944 and 1945 my granddad shot down quite a few US-bombers (and also machines from the UK) over Germany with his Focke-Wulf and left a real mountain of American corpses. After the war, when he found out that he fought for the wrong side he was filled with bitter sorrow over the mess he had arranged (although he did it in purely defensive missions). The life of a fallen young man will never come back and all who have a heart beating in their chest will feel the mourning and the tears of the poor mothers.

As I said - I am sitting between all chairs, but there is nothing that I hate more than real nazis.

They French are willing to abandon everything, even their culture to gain oil and government benefits. The anti-American feelings in Europe are aimed at gaining favor from the world despots and more oil contracts. Austria and Germany are no different. Europe will sell out their own culture for oil, it is already happening.

Do you know that most people here in Europe say exactly the same about you? Fact is that Germany and France recieve most of their oil from Russia and not from Iraq, Iran or somewhere else in the ME. Furthermore we have no obligation to support you in offensive wars. NATO is restricted to defensive operations. Therefore is the war in Iraq your very own party and for sure none of our business. Most Europeans are convinced that the conquering of oilfields for Halliburton was the reason for this war. Nobody and I mean really nobody ever believed into Saddam's WMDs in Europe. Maybe you can understand now that most Europeans saw absolutely no reason to support America in this operation if you rethink the European impression of your motives.

I have to admit that some of our politicians would have better kept their mouths shut. Chirac and Schroeder were a pain in the a**. It is for sure not in the interest of us Europeans that America is going to loose this war like Vietnam. Therefore European conservatives like me support more troop deployments in Afghanistan to give your troops the possibility that you can concentrate your power in Iraq. Furthermore personally I do not share the view of most of my compatriots (although I understand then) and I think that the elimination of Saddam Hussein was worth a war with many lost lives. Nevertheless I do not believe into significant amounts of Iraqi WMDs either.

The thing is that we are much more independent from America than we were until 1990. Today Germany is free to make decisions in its own interest. That was not always the case.

There was a map in the Wall Street Journal that depicted all the areas of the world where Total SA had oil contracts. Every where there is an anti-American despot with oil, France has oil contracts. France was was heavily involved with Iraq and lost a huge contract due to the war in Iraq (then when the initial invasion was over and Saddam was captured, France wanted in to "help" with the rebuilding).
The new head of Total is supposed to be under investigation for involvement in the oil for food scam, but of course there will be no prosecution because Chirac and Villapaine (SP?) were involved as well. Now, Total is about to begin the joint development of a huge off shore natural gas field with Iran. It is not the US that is desperate for oil. It is Europe. Getting your oil from Russia is never a good thing, because it puts you at the mercy of the Russians, and we all know that Russians do not have a good track record for keeping their aggreements.

The Europeans are fond of saying that Americans are uncultured, but the Europeans have frittered away their own culture, and now the most popular baby name in Europe is Mohammed, all for oil( and money in the pockets of your corrupt leaders). Lazy Europeans rushed head long, back into the socialist nanny state after the reconstruction that followed WWII (a reconstruction that was largely done by the US, though Europe is eternally ungrateful and disloyal). It is the same the socialist condition that allowed for the rise of Hitler, because of the loss of freedom of speech, and desire to allow the government, and greedy politicians to take responsibility for your lives.

If Europe hates Hitler, it is only because he was a loser. The antisemitism in Europe is rising to the levels of the early thirties, mainly driven by the influence of the Muslim population in Europe, and again by the dependence on Mideast oil. Europe has lost its moral compass, if it ever had one, and is spinning in a tide of political perfidy.

Every where there is an anti-American despot with oil, France has oil contracts.

Correct. And every where there is an pro-American despot with oil, the US has oil contracts. Do not tell me that it is more morale to make business with Saudi Arabia compared to Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Dealing with oil is a business without too much values no matter if it is done by Americans or Europeans.

The Europeans are fond of saying that Americans are uncultured, but the Europeans have frittered away their own culture, and now the most popular baby name in Europe is Mohammed, all for oil( and money in the pockets of your corrupt leaders). Lazy Europeans rushed head long, back into the socialist nanny state after the reconstruction that followed WWII (a reconstruction that was largely done by the US, though Europe is eternally ungrateful and disloyal). It is the same the socialist condition that allowed for the rise of Hitler, because of the loss of freedom of speech, and desire to allow the government, and greedy politicians to take responsibility for your lives.

Well if this is your conviction you should not waste your time in whining around about those lazy socialist Europeans. Simply pack your bags and go. Save the world on your own and do not bother us with your problems.

It is indeed true that America helped us after WWII. Germany recieved 1.5 billion US$ after the war. The sum of money was not that important but the psychological thrill gave a decisive push to the German economy. Since the US already were engaged in the cold war they needed a stable platform in central Europe. Just to get the dimensions: Germany payed 65 billion Euros reparations. Therefore it can not be said, that the recontruction of Europe was largely done by the US. This is ridicolous. It is indeed true that the US helped and we are really as thankful as we can be, but the real work was done by ourselves.

If Europe hates Hitler, it is only because he was a loser. The antisemitism in Europe is rising to the levels of the early thirties, mainly driven by the influence of the Muslim population in Europe, and again by the dependence on Mideast oil. Europe has lost its moral compass, if it ever had one, and is spinning in a tide of political perfidy.

Nope. The current level of antisemitism in Europe is quite low. It has its origin in the problems between the Arabs and Israel and can not be compared to the early thirties of the last century. Countries like Germany are delivering Israel with free weapons i.e. and are helping where they can. Olmert asked us to control the coast of Lebanon i.e. and we did although we have practically no interests there and therefore it would be a waste of money and time if it is not in the interest of the Israelis. BTW - Antisemitism in Europe can not be that eminent since more Jews immigrated to Germany than to Israel in the recent years until they changed the German immigration laws because Israel was quite pi**ed about that situation.

You know absolutely nothing about Europe. A ridicolous orgy of hate. I feel sorry for your uncle who had to suffer under Hitler and some traitorous French. Nevertheless the situation 60 years ago has only very little in common with the current.

Americans don't hate Europeans the way the Europeans hate Americans, we just don't trust them. Europe is using anti-American sentiment to build up their own self esteem and gain political currency among the world community of socialist despots. America rescued Europe from its own treachery, not once but twice and this is the thanks that we get.

Don't feel sorry for me or Americans, feel sorry for Europe, because it won't be around for many more years, not as you now know it. Europe will be Eurabia, and I hope you enjoy Sharia law. You claim that the anti-semiticism is largely a result of the Israeli-Palistinian conflict, but that is only a symptom, not a cause. A Palestinian Mullah helped Hitler design his anti-Jewish pogrom.

My son toured Europe in the summer of 2005, and everywhere he went in Europe there were problems with the Islamists. He was in the subway station in London on July 7th when the Islamists blew up the train. When he was in Paris, Muslim men ran through the train yelling in Arabic and terrorizing the other passengers, until women were crying and screaming. Every country that he visited showed signs of the rising problem that Europe faces from the Islamic immigration. Europe is afraid to deal with it, so they blame the US.

Americans don't hate Europeans the way the Europeans hate Americans, we just don't trust them.

That is fine. Nevertheless what is your definition of anti-Americanism? Well, it is indeed true that most western Europeans have other political gains than the current US-administration. It is indeed true that we have another way of living. Of course we are different from you and it is also true that we do not want to absorb everything from you. It is even true that some American values are quite irrelevant on the old continent. The people here have more socialist ideology, they are not that religious and last but not least they have another definition of freedom. While it is no problem to obtain weapons in the US or drive a car with 16 you will have no problem in Europe when you are going topless over a beach or when you drink alcohol and smoke with 16. Other countries other attitudes.

This is all true. Nevertheless why do you think are we sending our kids into exchange programs with you? Why are we helping you out with soldiers in such godforsaken places like Afghanistan? Why will you never see any American flags being burned on our streets? Why will everbody help you in Europe when you are in need of help? Why are the people friendly to you if they find out where you come from? Why is everyone trying to speak with you although all of them have a funny accent? Why do elderly European women invite you for tea and coffee?

Because we hate you?

Europe will be Eurabia, and I hope you enjoy Sharia law.

Yawn. Well I am also keen on 72 virgins in heaven (to a male like me it might be more interesting than playing a harp on a cloud as an angel) but seriously - Germany has 3.7% muslims in its population. The French have more, the Brits have less. Our muslims in Germany are mainly Turks. Most if them are nice and decent people who work hard and are far from terrorism. We have some problems with young muslim males in big towns. That much is true. The crux is, that they are the underdogs in our society. Usually they lack education and they get no jobs. Therefore they lost their self-esteem and they fall back into being a "muslim" or a "Turk". This is the reason why they spoil some areas in our big towns with violence and riots. Islam is simply a identification base for them just as it is the color of the skin for such underdogs in your country. All this is not that different to the US. Maybe you remember the L.A. "Rodney King" riots from 1992. I think roundabout 60 people died because of your problems with your black minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_Riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

The difference to the recent riots in France was that the incident in the US was much more violent. Welcome to our common realitiy. Europe is as far away from Sharia law as you are away from a becoming a black apartheid state.

My son toured Europe in the summer of 2005, and everywhere he went in Europe there were problems with the Islamists. He was in the subway station in London on July 7th when the Islamists blew up the train. When he was in Paris, Muslim men ran through the train yelling in Arabic and terrorizing the other passengers, until women were crying and screaming. Every country that he visited showed signs of the rising problem that Europe faces from the Islamic immigration.

I am sorry to hear that he was involved into the terror bombing in London. But this was such a extreme situation that I as a European have never been in something comparable, although I have much experience in travelling around on my continent. Just one thing - I have been in your country many times in my life and I could say the same about your black underdogs (just to make it clear - I have nothing against blacks and I am no racist). Just try to spend a night as a European in Harlem/New York in a typical tourist outfit. Have fun!

Europe is afraid to deal with it, so they blame the US.

I never ever heared that European people, media or politicians constructed a coherence between the US and our problems with muslim immigration. It would be moronic. Give me some sources please.

Do not tell me that it is more morale to make business with Saudi Arabia compared to Iraq under Saddam Hussein. . .Who have the Saudis gassed/invaded/fire missiles at?

Who has Saddam Hussein gassed/invaded/fired missiles at in 2003?

That's answering a question with a question, nevertheless I believe he fired missiles at our planes enforcing the no fly zones (maybe it was 2002.)

Anyway, it is more moral to do business with Saudi Arabia whose theocratic totalitarianism is domestic and cynical, than a meglomanic with a history of mass murder, aggression, support for terror and dreams of becoming a nuclear power.

I don't expect governments -- yours, mine or anyone's -- to behave like saints, but there should be an expectation among societies that recognize the rule of law and the undesirablilty of violence to condemn and isolate those nations that seek to export violence and expand their power. Iraq falls into that category and the Saudis don't.

What's most upsetting about France is that their leadership's defense of Hussein seemed more for their own benefit than their nation's.

What about the business of America with Saddam Hussein during the 80ties??! He was already a mass murderer, he used mustard gas on Iranians and he dreamt about becoming a nuclear power but you guys were giving him even intelligence infos since it was suitable for you that he attacked the Iranians. Or - to give you another example - what is about Pakistan, one of your closest allies in the WOT??! They are already a nuclear power. The US reaction on their first test series wasn't that impressive although their millitary dictatorship (that is no "new" democracy) is extremely instable, agressive (India, Afghanistan) and opressive.

To criticise the French for their business with Iraq before 2003 is really two-faced.

I read in a German magazine that the Saudis are thinking about invading parts of southern Iraq from the moment the Americans are leaving the region.

I am not saying that Europe blames America for its Muslim immigration. I am saying that they blame America for all the Muslim terrorism. They think that we are aggravating the situation by going on the offense against militant Islam in both Iraq and Israel. Europe was not afraid to help out in Afghanistan because they had nothing to lose there, and a more or less stable Afghanistan is better for building oil pipelines.

Nevertheless what is your definition of anti-Americanism? Well, it is indeed true that most western Europeans have other political gains than the current US-administration. It is indeed true that we have another way of living......

Careful, your supercilious arrogance is showing.

The slogan at the recent Munich Conference on Security (ironic that they hold it there) was Peace through Dialogue. That is all Europe is capable of, dialogue, but nothing ever comes of it and America pays the price (Israel, too). We suffered terror attack after attack, under the Clinton administration, and the spineless pervert treated it as though it was a civil crime. Europe is now full of Neville Chamberlains, all talk, no action.

What about the business of America with Saddam Hussein during the 80ties??!

What business? Loaning him money? Supporting him against Iran? His biggest arms suppliers were the Soviets and the French. The Isralies were the ones flying the F-16s when they bombed Osirak.

Or - to give you another example - what is about Pakistan, one of your closest allies in the WOT??!

You don't think Musharraf is an ally in the WOT?

To criticise the French for their business with Iraq before 2003 is really two-faced.

Hardly. Everything the French did was for their own benefit and was often at odds with Cold War strategy or just common decency (check out Hotel Rwanda).

. You really think that was the case with the U.S.? Democracy for the Phillippines, Argentinia etc. What do we get out of supporting Israel or Taiwan?

Well politics just as millitary operations have to be effective. We have to wait for the next election in the US. If your coming president is "democratic" I doubt that America is able to win the war in Iraq. She will retreat the troops and the country could either be conquered by Iran/SaudiArabia/Turkey or is going to fall into a anarchistic war zone. Sort of a new Somalia or Afghanistan. That means that your government wasted the lives of roundabout 3000 American servicemen and -women and a few hundred billion Dollars of American taxpayers. BTW - much more than America has been spending on the extremely successfull Marshall plan. I do not doubt that the motives of President Bush were good, but I am not sure if they were worth the price if the whole operation ends in a failure. Therefore it might have been wise to hear on some constructive critisism from the old continent.

Besides - you say that you suffered terror attack after terror attack. That might be true. But tell me - has anything changed? Just compare the American losses/month to terrorism of 1998 and those of today. You will not deny that things have gotten much worse. You weren't even able to catch Bin Laden. I do not want to back Clinton. Nevertheless, your foreign policy of the past few years was not very effective - in difference to ours.

Germany i.e. is very successfull in keeping their sector in Afghanistan silent since we do not soley rely on "fighting down the enemy". We cooperate with the local people and they like us. The quintessence is that we control the situation. BTW- We learned this kind of behaviour from American GIs who gave a hand to us after WWII.

What business? Loaning him money? Supporting him against Iran?

Well your gouvernment did what we all did. You guys bought oil , supported him against Iran and you did normal trade. Nothing spechial. Nevertheless we all knew that he was a mass murderer using poision gas in this war or to opress the Kurds.

You don't think Musharraf is an ally in the WOT?

He might be an ally but I think that he should not be one due to his regime and his possession of nukes.

Democracy for the Phillippines, Argentinia etc.

Argentinia? Argentinia? Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

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