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To: Atlantic Bridge

Sanctions are never going to work, as long as Europe continues to put their own economic well being above world security. Europe has a long, no so illustrious history of doing just that. Remeber, those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That applies not only to Europe, but to the Democrats in this country, who are as irrational and power hungry as the worst despots.

As far as trade protections in the US, I am opposed to any artificial restrictions on trade that are pushed by our unions. I am also opposed to socialist props provided to European companies, such as Airbus. Eventually, the props turn out to be futile, anyway.

Did you know that Bill Clinton bugged to offices of the foreign delegations to the World Trade Conference in Seattle? Was that publicized in the foreign press?


68 posted on 02/20/2007 12:09:57 PM PST by Eva
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To: Eva
Sanctions are never going to work, as long as Europe continues to put their own economic well being above world security.

They will work as long as we are integrated into the strategy with the US. The problem might be the "unilateral" acting of your country in the recent years. The trans-atlantic tragedy started when President Bush bailed out of a few -to Europeans quite important- projects like the Kyoto protocol. This found its continuation in the pre-Iraq-war phase. The US acted alone and were totally amazed that they were left alone by western Europe then. It is no question that Chirac and Schroeder were a pain in the a**, but the policy of your administration concerning its foreign relations with western Europe were not better. In Germany we have a bonmot that says that you will recieve the echo of what you are shouting into the forrest. That exactly happend here. Most Europeans i.e. understood because of the refuse of President Bush to sign the Kyoto protocol that the US continue to put their own economic well being above world security (do you recognize the same words you wrote in your contribution above?). You Americans did not join into the security projects that were important to us since you have not been convinced of them. Why should we have been joining into security projects of you we were not convinced about for good reasons (really nobody in Europe believed into a danger because of the very few remaining WMDs of Saddam - this includes my own person)???

It was politically stupid to underestimate the self interests of Europe that careless. I think America paid a bitter price for it.

Acting intelligent means making things better than in the past. Our politicians have to talk with each other and they have to find a route of march in the Iran question that can be followed by all participants over the next few years. This should also include the time after President Bush. Therefore you Americans first have to discover what you really want and if there is a consensus possible between your 2 big parties. I am quite sure that this can not be a full scale war. It is anyway better to avoid another millitary conflict that is not being ended in a positive way because of a uncertain outcome of elections in America. As I already said your Iraq engagement could end in a total debacle if a democratic President decides to "pull out" after a possible political change in Washington. We do not need this disastrous political situation in another conflict with Iran.

If you Americans have a strategy that has the chance to remain stable over the next 5 or 6 years you should talk to your European partners. To me the only possibility to put pressure on Iran will be sanctions. If the US and Europe combine their efforts here we can isolate them completely since it is possible to force Russia and China into our positions then. We Europeans have to pay a high economic price in this case but I am sure that we will do that if we see a chance to solve this nuclear crisis.

But -as I already said- first of this you Americans have to do your own homework before you ask us to give up all of our interests in that area.

70 posted on 02/20/2007 5:13:08 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum!)
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To: Eva
As far as trade protections in the US, I am opposed to any artificial restrictions on trade that are pushed by our unions. I am also opposed to socialist props provided to European companies, such as Airbus. Eventually, the props turn out to be futile, anyway.

Agreed.

To Airbus: It was okay to me to start up the manufaturing of big commercial planes with subsidies in the 70ties, since private business would not have been able to pay for development expenses and the basic investments of such a project. Espechially for us Germans it was essential to reconstruct a capable aircraft industry after WWII. We lost our high tech air and space industry in 1945. Therefore it was alluring to rebuild it together with the French. Nevertheless it is true that since the mid 80ties our gouvernments should have left Airbus alone. As you probably know the French never did and the German socialist gouvernment under the social democrat Merkel (she calls herself "conservative", but she is not) will buy the share of Daimler-Benz in the near future. This prevents the fundamental reform that is nessecary inside of Airbus to make it profitable. You are right. Socialist BS.

Nevertheless Airbus will survive and they will make things difficult for Boeing (which is also financially backed by your gouvernment) in the next few years since those guys

1. are going to build planes in China. (the most moronic thing that can be done)

2. will get even more subsidies from our socialist gouvernments.

71 posted on 02/20/2007 5:31:31 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum!)
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