Posted on 02/20/2007 5:32:03 AM PST by SJackson
"I say again, the statements of fact you have posted, even if they are true, prove nothing."
Yes, I have posted statements of fact. If English isn't your first language, let me clarify...statements of fact/truth. FACTS PROVE EVERYTHING!
Norquist received money from a terrorist supporter...who is now incarcerated. He has NOT, repeat NOT, cut ties with muslims groups who have had members jailed on terror charges. Gaffney presents documentation on the ugly truth concerning Norquist and you accuse him of vendettas....similar tactic to the muslim radicals who scream "islamophobe" when questioned about their views. Interesting.
"What thng or things occured because of it all that is criminal or even suspect to a rational mind...."
You mean aside from a)taking money from a terrorist, (Alamoudi who is now in jail), b)arranging for this terrorist to have access to choosing military chaplains, c)by virtue of the powerful position he holds within the White House has allowed terrorist supporters, such as al-Arian, (again, now in jail), to be in close physical proximity to the President of the U.S.?
Uh, gee, I dunno, problem? What problem?
If YOU don't have a problem with that, then you are a fool or worse.
"some of the best investigative journalists -- real reporters unlike Gaffney -- have looked at all this and found nothing worth reporting." Who are these investigative journalists? Jason Blair, Dan Rather? Learned men such as Daniel Pipes, Steve Emerson, Paul Sperry, all have looked at this and found the disturbing facts regarding Norquist...facts that you don't what to know about... Gaffney, by the way, is not considered an investigative journalist, another fact you missed.
Those pesky facts and the truth always get in the way of those blind feelings, eh PDR?
I've presented fact, documentation and you've said you don't care to hear them. Hint: One of us is "blinded by feelings", but it's not me...
Clearly, you are devoid of reason, knowledge and logic...don't waste my time.
"If I'm wasting your time, why do you keep repsonding...."
You actually made the case quite strongly for my own point of view. I thought it would be fun to show the intelligent posters on this board the ignorance of posters such as yourself. You've risen to the challenge.
You have offered zippo proof. You denigrate and smear Pipes, Gaffney, Emerson based on your own personal feelings and no evidence, whatsover. You accuse those against Norquist of the same, yet they have provided evidence and YOU have not.
"and there are holes in everyone of the so-called facts you just presented."
Untrue. Of course, if there had been, you would have easily been able to document any falsehoods. Of course, you haven't, you can't because I understand that fact is truth, and you, sadly, do not grasp that concept.
You asked for proof, I gave it, you ignored it and made statements such as "So What?"
"... Dan Pipes, Frank Gaffney and Steve Emerson are NOT journalists - investigative or otherwise - they are propagandists.... polemisists... advocates...."
Ah, so anyone who disagrees with you gets called names...
You are guilty of slandering and smearing these men based upon your hysterical feelings. I have offered evidence backing my claims...you have not.
You have clearly stated in your previous posts that you don't care to comprehend the truth...it gets in the way of your story.
"not journalists. If all this is SO true, where is the Newsweek cover story? The New York Times investigative piece? The expose in Mother Jones? The NBC News white paper? The CNN Special Report? Surely the liberal media would have a field day with this if it were all true...."
Why don't you ask them? You seem to have a lot in common with the above group...they too have little regard for the facts, evidence and truth. You must be a fan of Jayson Blair, formerly of the NY Times. He made a career out of ignoring the truth.
" or are they in the Bush White House pocket too?"
Don't put words in my mouth. What is wrong with you?
Who said ANYTHING about anyone being in the Bush White House? Grover Norquist has continued close ties with terror sympathizers. You're the one who doesn't have a problem with him allowing these radicals access to the President....don't put words in my mouth.
I told you not to waste my time...
I will be more clear. Your behavior is abnormal. You are illogical, and incapable of an intelligent, factual based discussion.
You are wasting my time, you have nothing coherent to say and you are immature and childish in that you need to have the last word.
You've made my point.
Don't contact me again.
You continue to err or infer on several points, among them, that I engaged in name calling when I referred to Pipes, Emerson, Gaffney as propagandists, polemicists, advocates. These are, in the political realm, honorable pursuits -- they are just not journalism. You can put lipstick on a pig but it doesn't make him a beauty queen.
As to the lack of anyone filing a law suit as evidence of guilt, let me say that is simply preposterous. Why should anyone spend their time and their money on a lawsuit to answer frivolous charges made be a source who is hardly credible that are more an annoying than they are damaging. The potential gain in such circumstances do not outweigh the costs -- because the alleging party would no doubt continue to make the same or similar allegations even after losing in a court of law.
As to the lack of main stream media coverage, I have asked people I know at several of the publications I cited -- people who are no friend to Bush, to conservatives etc. -- where the stories on this are and the answer is uniformly the same: there's no story to be told.
All of the allegations that have been offered up are circumstantial and usually consist -- at some level -- of guilt by association. No one has been able to establish to my satisfaction or theirs that -- whatever they may be -- Norquist's relationships with any of these people -- if they do in fact exist -- resulted in any policy actions being taken or not taken, any meetings held, any decisions reached, nothing.
The fact that A knew B who knew C who was in the same suite of offices as Norquist and that D had a relative who once served on the board of an organization somewhere has, in and of itself, no inherently deeper meaning.
I could say more but I think I have said enough for the moment. You will, no doubt, have a response because you insist on having the last word.
Found some more disturbing information on Norquist in the course of my research:
Safavian is in jail now. Another Norquist buddy:
Ex-Director, Islamic Institute
Ali Tulbah
David Hossein Safavian
Administrator, Federal Procurement Policy, U.S. Office of Management and Budget
Ex-Lobbyist, Abdurahman Alamoudi, Janus-Merritt Strategies LLC, Washington
Ex-Director, Islamic Institute
Ali Tulbah
Associate director, Cabinet Affairs, White House
Son of Hasan Ali Tulbah, treasurer, Islamic Society of Greater Houston
Didn't know Mahboob Khan founded the Islamic Society of North America...
Father of Suhail Khan, aide to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta,
ex-White House aide
Founding member, Muslim Student Association
Founding member, Islamic Society of North America
Founder, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice, Santa Clara, Calif.
Co-Founder, Islamic Society of Orange County, Calif.
Co-Founder, Muslim Community Association, Santa Clara, Calif.
***Links to cancelled checks from Alamoudi (now in jail on terror charges), Saudi interests, Qatar, Gov't of Kuwait....all to Norquist.***(Islamic Institute)
Saudi interests: http://sperryfiles.com/images/8-1b.jpg
Qatar: http://sperryfiles.com/images/8-1a.jpg
Gov't of Kuwait: http://sperryfiles.com/images/8-1d.jpg
Khan was elected to the ACU Board.
Khan was elected to the ACU board.
Excellent information you sent regarding the Saudi investments.
Yes, I am acutely aware of the names on the list...they will be watched closely...I do believe folks are "catching" on.
To my recollection, Gaffney's "personal" problems with Norquist are not outside of the context of this article. That is, Norquist's strangely strong association with terrorist-Americans.
I think it's a bit misleading to suggest, even obliquely, that this is a matter over a stolen girlfriend.
The only one suggesting THAT is you... Gaffney made a fool out of himself over his bigotry and was publically expelled from the Norquist Wednesday meetng until he apologized to Khan, the president and several other people. So now Gaffney has an axe to grind. Even if every verifiable allegaton Gaffney lovved turned out to be true, there is still no there there.
And if t did have to do with a stolen girlfriend, as you suggest, how would Gaffney have explained that to his then wife?
Is English your first language?
Grover’s own Islamic Institute was initially financed by one of the most notorious of these operatives, Abdurahman Alamoudi, a supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah who told the Annual Convention of the Islamic Association of Palestine in 1996, “If we are outside this country we can say ‘Oh, Allah destroy America.’ But once we are here, our mission in this country is to change it.” Grover appointed Alamoudi’s deputy, Khaled Saffuri to head his own organization.
True or false?
"Grover’s own Islamic Institute was initially financed by one of the most notorious of these operatives, Abdurahman Alamoudi'"
FYI - I have posted the link to the actual copies of this check and others...
A few of us have followed this situation quite extensively. Gaffney, Sperry, Pipes, Emerson...all have been right on the money and have provided proof of this disturbing situation. Sperry's links are especially pertinent.
Let me know if you require further details.
Welcome to "the know".
And exactly what is it the debunkers have that would persuade us these outstanding individuals are mistaken?
"And exactly what is it the debunkers have that would persuade us these outstanding individuals are mistaken?"
In a word, and as evidenced by my exchange with a radical sympathizer on this thread? Nothing.
That makes two of us...
Norquist is on corporate welfare and gets his cushy salary from 501(c) tax exempt corporations while he advocates leftist social causes and cultural marxism.
I never trusted him...
"That makes two of us..."
Looks like it's more than just us now...
"I never trusted him..."
Nor should you. Glad you're keeping abreast of the latest info, and now, the tactics of Grover's allies...
He is one sneaky son-of-a-bitch.
"He is one sneaky son-of-a-bitch."
That he is.
I only know Norquist as the head of AFTR. His work as a tax advocate seems to have been stellar. Certainly David Horowitz (who sides with Gaffney in this dust up) writes good things about his previous work.
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