Bible essay stirs trouble for teacher (atheist crosses church and state boundary)

Herald Net (Snohomish County, WA) ^ | Thursday, February 22, 2007 | Melissa Slager

[amchugh]

The nature of God will no longer be part of an atheist teacher's American literature class at Lake Stevens High School.

[Libertarianchick]

I'm 22. I know what it's like to be a 17-year-old girl in school. Teachers who encourage debate and questioning are not "mean" like a lot of whiny people (especially girls) think. A lot of girls can't tell the difference between debating an idea and denigrating a person. The best response would be to debate the teacher and if the teacher was rude or denigrating, then to bring it to officials' attention. The teacher's authority can be trumped by the principal if he is misusing it, but it sounds like he was just encouraging debate. This girl has little to lose while she's still in high school.
I'm sure the girl was not taught how to defend her faith,which is the fault of her parents and chuch, but good internet resources and books are availible to teach yourself.

[highlander_UW]

Typical of atheists...I looked at one of the papers the teacher circulated and it wasn't even logical...and yet he was appealing to logic. Why doesn't he just admit that he's trying to proselytize his humanistic atheism and be honest about it? Nah...honesty and logic are not part of most atheist's make up apparently.

[Gene Eric]

The Herald Reports:

[The teacher's] handout, which was not part of the textbook's materials, asked questions such as how evil could exist if God is good and all-powerful

The teacher's question presupposes he is more intelligent than God.

[js1138]

as discussed on a thread a couple weeks ago, the new international Baccalaureate program in many high schools contains a "Theory of Knowledge" class. This is really a religion/philosophy class (talking about the existence of truth, the source of truth, ethics, etc.). The teachers are teaching these religion classes 1 hour/day, 5 days/week for 40 weeks, with homework assignments, but they don't want the parents to know that it is really a religion class or many parents would object. Many of our schools and teachers are now in an all-out war against Christianity. Parents better wise-up.

My daughter is an IB graduate. I think you will find that parents are quite aware of what goes on in TOK and approve enthusiastically. Otherwise they wouldn't want their kids in the program.

This is actually the place where issues such as ID can be discussed. You call it a religion class, but it is a philosophy class.

[amchugh]

You are right that his actions are proseletyzing, but [sarcasm]by all means let us extrapolate that most atheists are dishonest and illogical from one anecdote.[/sarcasm]

[TASMANIANRED]

Evil exists because man is able to perceive evil in this fallen world.

Without man there is no evil.

Natural events in the world are neither good or evil.

The crocodile does not bemoan the death of the gnu.

Neither does the Whale remark on the deaths of land animals due to tsunami.

[sphinx]

That handout, which was not part of the textbook's materials, asked questions such as how evil could exist if God is good and all-powerful.

Well, that's a real thumbsucker. If it stumped any of the students, I'd fault their churches and parents, not the teacher. It's not as if it's a new question.

[DeweyCA]

You may notice that I called the ToK class a religion/philosophy class. This philosophy class talks about topics that are inherently religious, because the topics are part of almost every religious worldview. The ToK class that one of my kids attends is not neutral, even when it seems, on the surface, to be that way. Since he supposedly does not make judgements about the opinions of the students, he is subtly endorsing the idea that all of the ideas are of equal value. Yes, as a public institution, he has to teach it that way, but that is not what a Christian parent (or any other religious parent) would teach to his kids. Relativism is not biblical.

This is the best case scenario. As I said earlier, last year, this teacher was much worse. He was actively promoting his anti-Christian views even though they were not at all related to the teaching material. Hopefully, your ToK teacher is better than this one.

[highlander_UW]

You are right that his actions are proseletyzing, but [sarcasm]by all means let us extrapolate that most atheists are dishonest and illogical from one anecdote.[/sarcasm]

You are correct...I overstated the case. What I should have written was most atheists I've personally encountered were illogical and/or dishonest...although in truth, much of what I was considering dishonest might more accurately be described as ignorant. I do apologize for making an overly large blanket.

[amchugh]

Well that's okay then; I apologize for the negativity of my response. You just landed close to one of my pet peeves, which is assuming all groups are like their worst members.

[Sopater]

I'm 22. I know what it's like to be a 17-year-old girl in school.

I don't doubt that you do. My point was that "spineless" is a pretty strong word. The teacher said that this was the first complaint that he's had in seven years of giving this assignment in this way.

McDonald said he's given the assignment this way since he first started teaching at the high school nearly seven years ago.

This is the first complaint, he said.

She also said that she has since switched to a different class taught by another teacher.

Assuming that this is a semester class, and taught once a semester with approximately 25 students in each class that would mean that in 7 years 350 students went through that class and she is the first one to complain. I sincerely doubt she's the first Christian student in the roughly 350 to go through that class. What colorful term would you use to describe the other Christians who took the class and never said a word to anyone?

[Sopater]

The teacher's question presupposes he is more intelligent than God.

Absolutely. This is the common "If I were God I'd have done things like so, therefore there either is no God or if there is He's not as wise as me" argument.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. -1 Corinthians 2:14

[Libertarianchick]

He said it was the first "complaint", probably as in complaint to the principal or another authority to remove the assignment, not that she was the first student to discuss or debate it or even get mad.
Some other students may have kept silent because they were afraid, but I'm sure others debated it in those several years. I'm quite sure he's referring to the fact that no one went crying to the principal before, not that it was not controversial in the class.

[Sopater]

I'm quite sure he's referring to the fact that no one went crying to the principal before, not that it was not controversial in the class.

Maybe, but he doesn't mention any debate in years past, only "no complaints". I think I'll still commend the girl. Granted, it may have not been the best response, but I will still say it took more courage than not saying anything to anyone.

[aNYCguy]

The four functions are necessary but not sufficient. Reread the paragraph.

[Sopater]

The four functions are necessary but not sufficient. Reread the paragraph.

Agreed. I was just trying to play on his own terms.