Posted on 03/04/2007 8:59:00 AM PST by US admirer
People's religious convictions are unexplainable. A few years after my brother died I asked my Mother if she felt bad about the years she lost being estranged from my brother. She said no.
What always surprises people is my utter inability to condemn my parents for doing what they did. If you grow up in a home where principles and convictions are strong, it's not surprising...and it's even admirable.
And since we were brought up in a home where convictions were strong, it was understandable that my brother did what he did as well. You make your choices...ahd then you live with the consequences.
Ironically, my other brother and I married out of the religion years later and it just didn't matter anymore to my parents. I'm not quite sure what it all meant, but there were no villians...
Interesting how their moral and religious ideals, worth abandoning their son for, were fleeting. They squandered years of a loving relationship with their own flesh and blood for a belief system that was drilled into them by zealots, only apparently to realize late that the beliefs were not in fact as obligatory as the Talmud/rabbis preached. Kinda makes one wonder about the wisdom and truth of their beliefs in the first place wouldn't you say?.
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal
At least two-thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity: idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religous or political ideas. - Aldous Huxley
Some good quotes.
I respected my parents stand as I respected my brothers stand. They both went where their beliefs took them.
"Notice how these loving religious people treated their son..."
Boo Hoo. He made his choice and I doubt he was surprised by the consequences. Why are you? Owning our tough choices is not about casting blame, and is seldom rewarded with only good things.
I'm in Tucson. Man, is Bullhead ever hot. We were driving through there one August and the pavement gave me a hot foot through the bottom of my car.
Like others on this thread, I think you've got the wrong read or at least fail to take into account the competing religious convictions and their sources in Jewish law and tradition.
I can also tell you, as an Orthodox Jew (black hat, etc.), that the case of David in the story is no longer typical. Because the Orthodox world has been confronted with the difficulties of raising children in an increasingly tempting and corrosive culture, there has been a sharp rise in young people "going off the path". Orthodox communities and organizations around the world have been organizing more effectively in the last 10 to 15 years and teaching parents to deal more lovingly with kids who go down this road, accepting them as they are, and always keeping the door open to return when the time is right. The message is clear that the child knows that the parents and teachers can't accept the behavior, but they should never give up on the person.
I have seen this approach in action and its amazing. A lot of kids come back within a short time. Some may adopt some changes in their lifestyle, but they hold on to the core religious practices and values. Some take a long time, but also don't become nearly as hostile to their given tradition because of the sense of acceptance.
Now the family in the story is atypical by today's standards. They are really reacting in an "old fashioned" way. The total rejection is for two reasons, IMHO. One, they are afraid that the heretical behavior of David will affect his siblings. In large Orthodox families, which may be 10 or 12 or more kids, the idea is they have to practice this tough love in the hopes that they will shield the other kids from a similar fate. This is a very real problem, especially if it is a much admired older sibling. Two, they hope that their ostracism will literally "shock" David back to the fold. In the old days, this might have worked, because David would literally have no where else to go. But in the Modern world, he can simply assimilate into the secular culture.
In sum, I think its unfair to criticize them as "unloving religious people". Rather, they are religious people who love all their children and believe that keeping them religious is the greatest act of love. Perhaps there are some things they could or should do to at least keep the door open to David, because it seems that the total rejection has driven him away even more.
It's beyond hot...it's opressive. It's nice for eight months, but that other four months...man. The problem is my husband loves it here. We're on the Colorado River, so there are only two options in the summer....air conditioning and the river. Can't even go in the swimming pool because it's too hot!
"A friend of mine from the early 70s, an Irish Catholic guy, married a Jewish woman from the Midwest and they had three children (baptized Catholics) and 30 + years together."
Given what Roman Catholics have done to the Jewish people, you are really surprised by this? Had I been that woman's father, I would have thought of her as if she had never existed.
So you blame every Catholic for anything that any Catholic has ever done to any Jew?
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
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there are Haredi units already within the IDF..
Ultraorthodox brigades have recently been created and have begun to see service. Quite successfully.
Definitely worth a look-see, if it's a subject that interests you.
Whoah, whoah, whoah.
Now there has certainly been historical bad blood between Jews and Catholics. But, the Catholic Church has done a lot of good for the Jewish people, as well.
Look at who sheltered a lot of Jews during the Holocaust. Look at what the last two popes have done and said. And there are many more example.
As a Jew, I look upon committed Catholics as brothers and sisters in the faith. Maybe their faith is somewhat different than mine, but we hold many (most even?) of the same values, and worship the same G-d.
All "US admirer" does is post anti-haredi/orthodox posts.
He or she is just a basic anti-semite, soft-sell version.
I have ceased communicating with him or responding to his posts or threads.
(And I say this as a person who left an Orthodox community.)
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