Pa. Still Likes GOP, but Looks for Moderation

Well, I guess we all disagree don't we?

The ONLY reason one could possibly come up with for voting for Rudy if you are not a conservative, is the belief that there is no other viable candidate out there and you wanted to stop Hillery or Obama.

The race is just getting started, and I think Rudy will eventually loose ground to other candidates once his views on social issues, which are in conflict with MOST Americans, MOST Republicans, ALL conservatives, and MOST people in this forum, are better know by the voters.

I do believe Rudy is the only Republican that can beat Hillary. Rudy is a conservative on fiscal, domestic, and foreign policy and supports strict constructionist judges and is a very strong and competent leader. Plus, the President has very little influence on social issues. I truly believe Rudy will win the nomination. There is really nobody else out there viable IMO.

We could go on and on.

You feel that Rudy is an acceptable social conservative - on what basis, I can't imagine.

He's for gay rights, he supports illegal aliens, he's anti-gun, he supports late term abortions, he has backed "hate crimes" laws, and I haven't the foggiest idea where the man stands on other hot button issues like the death sentence and affirmative action.

When he says he is going to appoint strict constructionists to the Court, I can only judge his interpretation of thar term by his social views - and based on his social views, his definition of "strict constructionist" is open to question.

You say he is a conservative on foreign policy.

What does that translate into? Will he go after the Iranians who are working on a nuclear bomb? Will he support Israel against Hezbollah and Hamas? Will he get tough with the Palestinians? Will he do something to stop Islamic infiltration in America? Does he believe we are locked in a battle for cultural survival with international Islam?

What exactly ARE Giuliani's positions on foreign policy?

How about the U.N.?

Can you provide links?

"Plus, the President has very little influence on social issues."

The President has a very great influence on social issues. He appoints federal court judges, he can push legislation, he can veto bills he opposes, he can set an example by his opinion on social matters. He can influence cases before SCOTUS through his Attorney General.

" I truly believe Rudy will win the nomination. "

At this point, things look pretty rosy for Rudy in the nomination process. McCain has imploded, and Romney's flip-flopping has marginalizewd him. But the race is just beginning and there are other viable candidtes out there - Hunter and a very coy Gingrich for example.

And I sincerely believe, if through some manipulation of numbers in the nomination process, Giuliani DOES get nomianted, his social record will lose him the bulk of the Red States.

Can he change this? Yes, by restating his past postion in light of the office he held - the mayor of a very liberal, liberal city.

But in my opinion, he won't because he has demonstrated a streak of obstinacy and his past views truly reflect his personal opinions, and were not pragmatic stands taken due to circumstances.

I didn't say Rudy was a social conservative. I said fiscal, domestic, and foreign policy.

Rudy has came out and said that we need to secure the border and he said he is against partial birth abortions.
He is against Aff. Action. I'm almost positive he is for the death penalty.

Rudy said he supports strict constructionist in the mold of Roberts and Scalia. Ted Olson confirmed that this is what Rudy has always believed. We know what Ted Olson's idea of a strict constructionist is and I know we can trust Ted Olson. This is what Mr. Olson said, "I've known (Rudy Giuliani) for 26 years and we've talked about this many times. He feels very strongly that people like Justice Scalia, Chief Justice Roberts, Sam Alito, Clarence Thomas, are the type of people that he would put on the court…I'm quite convinced that this is a genuine viewpoint that he has."

Will he go after the Iranians who are working on a nuclear bomb? Yes
Will he support Israel against Hezbollah and Hamas? Yes, Haartz came out and said that Rudy is their preferred candidate.

Will he get tough with the Palestinians? This is a man that threw Arafat out of a NYC function in 1995 and called the man a terrorist when Clinton was trying to be a buddy to Arafat. So what do you think

Does he believe we are locked in a battle for cultural survival with international Islam? Do you watch the news. Yes!

As far as social issues, other than court appointments, the President doesn't have much influence on social issues.To begin with, Rudy is AGAINST gay marriage. On Hannity and Colmes on February 5th he said, “Marriage should be between a man and a woman. [It's] exactly the position I've always had.” Now as far as homos go, personally, I disagree with their life style but as long as they do what they do in the privacy of their own home I really don't care and nobody else should either, especially not the federal government. The POTUS doesn't have the power to stop people from being gay. And he surely shouldn't be interferring in people's private lives. And to top things off, marriage is a state issue. So therefore voting on the basis of this issue doesn't make much sense.

Rudy is not the abortion on demand liberal people make him out to be. He is against partial birth abortions, contrary to the misinformation some on here are posting. On Hannity Rudy said “Partial-birth abortion, I think that's going to be upheld(by the USSC). I think that ban is going to be upheld. I think it should be.” And as soon as Rudy got finished saying this, Hannity acknowledged, “There's a misconception that you supported partial-birth abortion”. So there we have, Rudy is against partial birth abortions. Rudy is also for parental notification. He also acknowledged this on Hannity. So Rudy certainly isn’t for abortion on demand.

In general on abortion, we have a pro-life President now but we are still having abortions. No president has the power to stop abortion. Rudy has already said he supports strict constructionist judges like John Roberts. He constantly praised the President for appointing Roberts and Alito. On Hannity Rudy said “I think the appointment of judges that I would make would be very similar to, if not exactly the same as, the last two judges that were appointed. Chief Justice Roberts is somebody I work with, somebody I admire, Justice Alito someone I knew when he was U.S. attorney, also admire. If I had been president over the last four years, I can't think of any, you know, that I'd do anything different with that.” Assuming Rudy gets elected President and appoints Roberts-like justices then maybe Roe v. Wade will get overturned. But even if it does get overturned we know that this won’t stop all abortions. The abortion issue would then revert back to the states and does anyone really think California would outlaw abortions? Being pragmatic in our thinking we all know we can't completely stop abortions. Therefore voting solely on this issue very unpragmatic. I hate abortions like everyone else on here but I realize that regardless of how many pro-life presidents we elect, its just not going to stop.

Hunter is not viable and Gingrich would get killed in the general. Rudy would win the general election. In the latest Rasmussen poll, Rudy wins independents 64%-27 over Hillary, win 14% of Democrats, and wins 88% of Republicans(Bush won 91% in 2004). Michael Barone is the best elections expert in this country and I'm not going to question him. The Red States won't go for Hillary, no way at all!

I respect your opinions and I'm with you in disagreeing with abortion and gays. However, politics is not perfect in the least. Sometimes you have to compromise. Ronald Reagan understood this. He wrote this in his autobiography An American Life: "When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn't like it. "Compromise" was a dirty word to them and they wouldn't face the fact that we couldn't get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don't get it all, some said, don't take anything. I'd learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: 'I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.' If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that's what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it."

I doubt any of this has changed your mind but that's ok. You're entitled to your point of view just as I am. You have been respectful and not resorted to name calling as some on here have and I thank you for that. Have a good night.

"I doubt any of this has changed your mind but that's ok."

Well, some of what you said makes him seem more palatable.

But you didn't say anything about guns - check my tagline.

I agree. The GOP needs Rudy in 2008 to combat Hillary. We need a leader and someone who is a street fighter. And it helps that he is a hero too.

If Rudy is the GOP nominee in 2008, we keep the White House and maybe get back the Senate too.

If someone else is the GOP nominee, we lose the White House, Senate, House, and I will start looking at buying a house in the Bahamas.

Well, I'll be truthful, his guns stances he took while Mayor were not good. He's been saying recently what is good for NYC isn't good for the nation as a whole and that states and localities should be the ones determining their gun laws. I hope he is being sincere on that one because the President does have more influence on guns than abortion and gay issues.

And I believe he'll appoint some more Clarence Thomases to the USSC too!

Bingo - and THERE'S the problem with Rudy and Second Amendment supporters and strict constitutionalists - a substatnial portion of the Republican base..

As a Duncan Hunter supporter I am choosing not to engage in debate on this Rudy Giuliani thread on Free Republic. As a freeper I am disappointed that there are fans of a liberal presidential candidate trying to push socially liberal views on this socially conservative forum. In particular, I have noticed that the Rudy G fans do not answer posts questioning the qualitative substance of their candidate, or the posts are met merely with insults.

Duncan Hunter's campaign website
http://www.gohunter08.com/

Statement of Jim Robinson, Founder of Free Republic:

As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc.

Video of Rudy Giuliani in his own words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM

Transcript of video below.

Will the real Rudy show up at CPAC?

Culture of life:

ABC clip:

George Will: "Do you think Roe v Wade was good constitutional law?"

Rudy Giuliani: "Yes I believe, I believe it is."

Cnn Clip December 2, 1999:

Announcer: "Giuliani was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial birth abortions, something Bush strongly supports."

Rudy Giuliani : "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing."

Immigration

CNN clip:

Announcer: "Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants."

Rudy Giuliani: "There isn't a mayor or a public official in this country that's more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago."

Gun control:

CNN clip

Rudy Giuliani: "I'm in favor of gun control"

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "How about registration of all handguns?"

Rudy Giuliani: "You know I'm in favor of that. I've been on your show many times."

Gay Rights:

CNN Clip:

Announcer: "As mayor he supported civil unions, and extending health and other benefits to gay couples."

ABC Clip: "I supported domestic partnership legislation and signed it"

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "So should gay people be openly allowed to serve?"

Rudy Giuliani: "I think people should be judged on the merits. And there should not be a specific focus on someone's sexual orientation."

First Amendment:

ABC Clip

Cokie Roberts: "Would you vote in the senate in favor of Mccain / Feingold?"

Rudy Giuliani: "Yes, I'm a big supporter of Mccain / Feingold. I have been for a long time."

Party Loyalty:

ABC Clip:

Rudy Giuliani: "Frankly George, I'd like to run on all the lines. I'd like to run on the liberal line, the conservative line, I'd like to run on the democratic line if I could figure out how to do it."

Conservative Values:

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "Whether it's gays in the military, gun control, campaign finance, late term abortion - you and Hillary Clinton are in sync on those issues."

Rudy Giuliani: "Well then maybe the other side should stop the 'He's part of the vast right wing conspiracy'."

Welcome To CPAC, Rudy!

End clip.