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The Immigration Minefield
Politico.com ^ | 3/8/07 | Roger Simon

Posted on 03/08/2007 9:12:33 AM PST by NormsRevenge

Immigration reform is a predicament wrapped in a dilemma.

While it is common for issues to separate Republicans and Democrats, immigration is an issue that opens yawning divides within each group.

"We are engaged in a struggle for the soul of the party," Mel Martinez, the general chairman of the Republican National Committee, told me.

Martinez said Republicans must back more than border security if they are to survive politically. The party, he believes, must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country.

Alex Castellanos, media strategist for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, sees it differently.

"Of primary importance to Republican voters is that we are at war and our borders are porous and it is petrifying," Castellanos told me. "How do we not lock our borders at night?"

Both Castellanos and Martinez are loyal Republicans, both are Cuban-Americans and both came to this country as children. But they divide over immigration.

Martinez, who is also the junior senator from Florida and the first Cuban-American to serve in the Senate, said the issue is unifying in one respect: It is uniting Hispanic voters against the Republican Party.

"Hispanics share a language, but not much else," he said. "But I believe this issue has galvanized the Hispanic community like no other issue has. This is a moment in history, a moment in time. An emerging class of Americans view it personally and passionately, and the political outcome will be very long-lasting."

There is another wrinkle: A number of big businesses depend on the cheap labor that illegal immigration provides, and the Republican Party risks a lot when it risks crossing big business.

"We need guest workers, because the business community depends on workers from other countries because they can't get the workers here," California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, told me recently.

They not only risk (once again) being portrayed as weak on security and soft on crime, but there is also a split within the union base of the party: Younger unions with Hispanic memberships that are likely to gain from a guest-worker program oppose older unions that believe illegal immigrants are taking jobs from American workers.

But the Democratic uproar has been drowned out by the roar emanating from the Republicans, some of whom feel the party is at a historic crossroads on the immigration issue.

Matthew Dowd, who was a senior strategist to George W. Bush in 2000 and his chief strategist in 2004, has said that if Republicans are to win national elections in the future, they must increase their share of the minority vote. And the Hispanic vote is the most fertile ground.

"Hispanics are more like European immigrants of the early 1900s or late 1800s," Dowd said. "They are like the Irish: They start out Democratic, but as they become part of the economic mainstream, they become much more valuable to Republicans."

President Bush, a former border-state governor who speaks Spanish and campaigned on creating a more sympathetic immigration system when he ran in 2000, favors a law that includes a guest-worker provision instead of a law that just addresses border security.

In 2006, Republican Sen. John McCain joined with Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy to sponsor such a bill. It failed, but the two will soon introduce another version.

The greatest political implications are for McCain, who is running for the Republican presidential nomination against Romney, who is pushing border security, and Rudy Giuliani, who has been sympathetic to immigration in the past but is not taking a high-profile role on the issue at the moment.

Monday, I interviewed top strategists for all three campaigns.

Castellanos, working for Romney, said America had to make its borders less vulnerable to illegal aliens. "This is not a slap at Hispanics; that does not mean you put the torch out on the Statue of Liberty," he said. "People come here and are productive. But there is a legal way to do that."

Rick Davis, CEO of the McCain campaign, said, "If you are an Hispanic today, you are registering Democratic. The outcome of the debate on immigration is very important to the future of the Republican Party."

Davis said that in 2004, Bush got more than 40 percent of the Hispanic vote. But in 2006, after the controversy over immigration, Republicans running for Congress got only about 30 percent.

"There is a message there and it isn't good," Davis said.

Michael DuHaime, executive director of the Giuliani campaign, tried to wend his way through the minefield. "I think this is an issue that is going to be talked about, but in a much larger, broader context," he said. "It is a key issue, but there are other much larger and broader issues, like cutting taxes and cutting spending."

Democrats may face considerable and conflicting pressure from organized labor if immigration reform comes up for a vote in Congress.

The fast-growing Service Employees International Union endorsed the Kennedy-McCain bill last time around. The AFL-CIO and Teamsters opposed it.

The possibility exists of a Democratic Congress and a Republican president joining forces to pass immigration reform and to sign it into law before the November elections next year. If that happens, both parties are likely to seek credit from Hispanic voters.

"We need to secure the borders and we need a guest worker program that works," Schwarzenegger said. "It all depends on how you present the thing."


TOPICS: Cuba; Culture/Society; Mexico; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alien; aliens; camerica; centralamerica; cuba; cuban; cubans; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; latinamerica; latino; latinos; mexican; mexicans; mexico; minefield
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1 posted on 03/08/2007 9:12:34 AM PST by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

A mine field might not be a bad idea. Cheaper than a wall.


2 posted on 03/08/2007 9:13:19 AM PST by LIConFem (Thompson/Hunter 2008!)
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To: NormsRevenge
"People come here and are productive. But there is a legal way to do that."

Bump. They should also try to assimilate, too.

3 posted on 03/08/2007 9:21:10 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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Martinez said Republicans must back more than border security if they are to survive politically. The party, he believes, must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country.
4 posted on 03/08/2007 9:21:28 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: NormsRevenge

Martinez, who is also the junior senator from Florida and the first Cuban-American to serve in the Senate, said the issue is unifying in one respect: It is uniting Hispanic voters against the Republican Party.


Funny, I know lots of LEGAL hispanics and they all despise illegals. They call them 'oaxacans' (spelling) and it sounds like they are spitting when they say it.


6 posted on 03/08/2007 9:23:04 AM PST by sheana
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To: NormsRevenge

"The party, he believes, must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country."

So that's why they're pimping rudy for president.

So now the GOP will be the War & hold the line on taxes party. And what else?


7 posted on 03/08/2007 9:23:22 AM PST by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Martinez said Republicans ... must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country.

Mr. Martinez, the people would back "regularization" if they could trust you and the rest of the yahoos in Congress to secure the border. YOU are not trustworthy.

8 posted on 03/08/2007 9:25:40 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: NormsRevenge
President Bush has shown he thinks Loyalty is a one way street by appointing an open border RNC chairman!

Thanks for the ping.
Duncan Hunter will give top down loyalty which is unknown by nearly all politicians.

***

There is a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top.
Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and much less prevalent.

George S. Patton, Jr.,
9 posted on 03/08/2007 9:26:41 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (!yaw gnorw eht su ekat lliw noitartsinimdA inailuiG A)
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To: sheana
"lots of LEGAL hispanics and they all despise illegals. They call them 'oaxacans' (spelling)"

Could there be some racism in play there? Oaxaca is a poor state in southern Mexico with a large Amerindian population (compared with Mexicans of European and mixed Amerindian/European descent).

Are your Mexican/Mexican descended acquaintances light skinned or mestizos?

10 posted on 03/08/2007 9:28:21 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

at play.


11 posted on 03/08/2007 9:28:42 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: NormsRevenge

"Martinez said Republicans must back more than border security if they are to survive politically. The party, he believes, must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country".

How about the "DEPORTATION" of ILLEGAL ALIENS/IMMIGRANTS/MIGRANTS/STEALTH BORDER CROSSERS!!!!!! How about these scum-bag politicains quit worrying about the survival of their parties, and start worrying about the survial of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.!!!!!!


12 posted on 03/08/2007 9:29:30 AM PST by Msgt USMC (Lead, follow, or get the heck outta the way!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Rudy Gulliani: A Leader for our Nation:

Rudy Giuliani, who has been sympathetic to immigration in the past but is not taking a high-profile role on the issue at the moment.

Michael DuHaime, executive director of the Giuliani campaign, tried to wend his way through the minefield. "I think this is an issue that is going to be talked about, but in a much larger, broader context," he said. "It is a key issue, but there are other much larger and broader issues, like cutting taxes and cutting spending."

But remember, we should vote for Giuliani, because even though he's wrong on most issues that matter to us, he's a real leader......

13 posted on 03/08/2007 9:30:24 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

I know where Oaxaca is, have been there. My friends are all just regular Mexican descendants. They aren't racist. They are full of diversity, isn't that the key word? They have caucasian and black friends, most are firefighters and their wives, and that is definitely a diversified bunch.

So now we are putting the 'racist' tag on Americans of Mexican descent too? All because they don't like illegal immigration either.
Simply amazing!


14 posted on 03/08/2007 9:31:56 AM PST by sheana
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To: NormsRevenge

Has anybody noticed how the pro-Rudy folks seem to avoid any discussion that doesn't start with one of their own pro-rudy media pieces?


15 posted on 03/08/2007 9:32:20 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: sheana
It wasn't "all because" that at ALL. In fact it wasn't because of that. It was because of their use of oaxacans as a slur for illegal aliens, thus linking illegal aliens with a specific region and people group.
16 posted on 03/08/2007 9:35:13 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: sheana
It would be akin to when Americans are discussing illegal aliens they sneer, "Mexicans" and sound as though they are spitting out the word.

Does that make sense?

17 posted on 03/08/2007 9:38:07 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: NormsRevenge
It is uniting Hispanic voters against the Republican Party.

If the Republican party had taken this issue to task decades ago, this wouldn't be a problem because there would only be a small fraction of the "Hispanic voters" than there are now.

They made their bed, now let them lie in it.

18 posted on 03/08/2007 9:39:02 AM PST by HeartlandOfAmerica (Democrats: Best friends of America's WORST enemies!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Anyone who votes for lawbreakers based on a shared ethnicity is probably never going to vote conservative anyway.


19 posted on 03/08/2007 9:50:46 AM PST by DancesWithBolsheviks
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To: NormsRevenge; sheana; flashbunny; JoeGar; HuntsvilleTxVeteran; Jedi Master Pikachu; Msgt USMC

What do you guys and gals think of the following compromise solution regarding the illegals already here?

They would be offered a MODIFIED permanent residency with no possibility to become citizens or have the right to vote. Additionally they would not have the right to sponsor anyone else here.

Of course before doing this the border would need to be shut down to illegal migration.

The thing that I like about this is that:
1. it would freeze the problem where it is. With any "path to citizenship" or even permanent residency, we would get flooded with tens of millions of new LEGAL immigrants (all the relatives that they would sponsor over)
2. it would constitute a meaningful and appropriate punishment for coming here illegally, so it satisfies the "fairness" aspect vis-a-vis those that wait and do it right.
3. it constitutes a practical solution, whereas the "deport them all" is highly unlikely to ever happen.
4. it avoids the economic dislocation of thousands of businesses if they were indeed deported

I look forward to your comments.


20 posted on 03/08/2007 9:51:51 AM PST by aquila48
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To: NormsRevenge
"regularization" of illegal immigrants

They keep dancing all around and referring to it with all kinds of rhetorical devices, from Tony Snow's linguistic precision to Mel Martinez's "regularization".

It is still amnesty for illegals.

How much more stupid can the Party of Stupid be?

If the GOP in Congress and the GOP currently in the White House push this through, the GOP will not see majority status in Congress for decades. And they may not have an occupant in the WH for decades, as well.
21 posted on 03/08/2007 9:52:22 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: DancesWithBolsheviks

People shouldn't vote because of common people group (race) anyway.


22 posted on 03/08/2007 9:52:29 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: NormsRevenge
Go ahead politicians (on both sides of the isle) pass shamnesty. You will open the doors (the border) to everyone in the world who wants to come here for a reward. Shamnesty is a reward for breaking federal laws. Throw out those laws and the world will break down the doors (the border) to the point this country will not be recognizable within 10 years after shamnesty. Think the laws being broken now are terrible for the nation, given the shamnesties 10 years, we'll be lucky if any real symbolism of law remains.
23 posted on 03/08/2007 9:56:06 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: NormsRevenge
In 2006, Republican Sen. John McCain joined with Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy to sponsor such a bill. It failed, but the two will soon introduce another version.

Right.

The old version was the McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Bill. The new version will be the Kennedy-McCain Amnesty Bill.

If it quacks like a duck, and
if it waddles like a duck.....
24 posted on 03/08/2007 9:56:28 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: aquila48
Do not reward the CRIMINALS who overstay their visas or just INVADE our country.

Good bye to the greatest experiment in freedom.
Killed from the inside with greed!
25 posted on 03/08/2007 9:58:39 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (!yaw gnorw eht su ekat lliw noitartsinimdA inailuiG A)
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica
They made their bed, now let them lie in it.

The problem is, and I know they don't care about this, but it's my bed too.

26 posted on 03/08/2007 9:59:26 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: aquila48
Definitely try to shut down the border should be the first step.

As for permanent residency, personally would have a sort of visa thing, with the aliens having to renew their visa every 1 to 5 years--so their residency has to be approved. However, it should be fair. If they've lived here for twenty years, have a family here, and then find themselves out of work right before their time for renewal, they shouldn't be deported. If they've just recently arrived and haven't worked much at all, then deporting them would be fair.

For some crimes, they should be immediately deported (but not for ones such as minor traffic tickets, jaywalking, etc.).

Sort of a rough idea.

P.S. A bit old, but personal opinions on Illegal/Legal Immigration.

27 posted on 03/08/2007 10:01:00 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: NormsRevenge
Davis said that in 2004, Bush got more than 40 percent of the Hispanic vote. But in 2006, after the controversy over immigration, Republicans running for Congress got only about 30 percent.

Duh. The GOP got alot fewer from EVERY demographic, numbn*ts.

Prolly lost a good number BECAUSE of the parties perceived weak border position.

28 posted on 03/08/2007 10:01:25 AM PST by skeeter
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

True.


29 posted on 03/08/2007 10:01:44 AM PST by DancesWithBolsheviks
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To: Prokopton
Americans and Legal Immigrants are screwed if shamnesty is voted and signed into the law of the land.
30 posted on 03/08/2007 10:02:32 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
But remember, we should vote for Giuliani, because even though he's wrong on most issues that matter to us, he's a real leader......

Because he can beat Hillary....


if he doesn't drop out of the race against her again.

[We have to thank Rudy for Hillary ever getting elected to the Senate and becoming a force. Had she been defeated for the Senate in 2000, she would have become a political unknown in the historical footnotes alongside Geraldine Ferrarro. Thanks Rudy. You made her a Senator. Do you plan to make her the next President?(/s)]
31 posted on 03/08/2007 10:03:33 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: All
Personally, not even very opposed to a full deportation of illegal aliens (their children born here are Americans, however. If they are adults, they can stay. If they are minors, they can freely come back when they're adults). What is personally opposed is some of the attitudes that don't recognize that illegal aliens--for all their flaws and faults--ARE human creatures, too, and deserve respect as such. One freeper on this thread has already given a very stupid solution (personal opinion that it is stupid) of mining the border with landmines. You do realize that many of those crossing are women with children? If your proposition is landmines IN BETWEEN SEVERAL LAYERS OF FENCES ON BOTH SIDES THAT ARE VERY TALL AND HAVE BARBED WIRE ON TOP AND HAVE SIGNS STATING TO NOT CROSS AND THAT THERE ARE X NUMBER OF LANDMINES PER X UNIT OF AREA IN BETWEEN THE FENCES then that is one thing--and could be done, though that seems a bit extreme. If your proposition is to simply strew the border with landmines where figuratively almost all and sundry can blow themselves up, then definitely NO.
32 posted on 03/08/2007 10:16:55 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: LIConFem

Comment 32 references you. Just a heads up.


33 posted on 03/08/2007 10:18:25 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: NormsRevenge
"An emerging class of Americans view it personally and passionately, and the political outcome will be very long-lasting." [Mel Martinez]

There is also an existing class of Americans known as citizens. These U.S. citizens also view it personally and passionately, and the political outcome of an amnesty will be very long-lasting.

There is another wrinkle: A number of big businesses depend on the cheap labor that illegal immigration provides, and the Republican Party risks a lot when it risks crossing big business.

A number of big businesses depend on the cheap labor that breaking the law provides, and the Republican Party can kiss big campaign contributions goodbye if it dares to expect big business to operate in a legal manner.

34 posted on 03/08/2007 10:20:05 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
"If your proposition is to simply strew the border with landmines where figuratively almost all and sundry can blow themselves up, then definitely NO."

Um... I was joking. Get a sense of humor, they're fun!
35 posted on 03/08/2007 10:25:06 AM PST by LIConFem (Thompson/Hunter 2008!)
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To: NormsRevenge
The party, he believes, must back legislation that will lead to the "regularization" of illegal immigrants already in this country.

George W. Bush didn't need legislation to regularize the banking in an effort to 'regularize' the Mexican illegal aliens.

He just directed the FDIC to form a task force that resulted in reducing the ID requirements to allow Mexican illegal aliens to use Mexican Matricular Consular cards as a form of valid ID.

Then, the banks set up office in the Mexican consulates so that when Mexican illegal aliens applied for an ID, they were told how to use their Matricular Consular cards to open bank accounts, take out home and auto loans, apply for home loans. IOW, the whole works.

See: New Alliance Task Force:

2006 Finalist

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation of Chicago
Award Sponsor
Innovations in American Government Awards

Without access to banking services, even small necessities, like paying rent, incur high costs. For the "unbanked," payments are often made with an expensive cashier's check and paychecks cashed through predatory services that charge high fees. It is difficult and dangerous to save money when it must be kept at home, increasing the incentive to consume and placing the purchase of houses, cars, and even most large appliances out of reach. For 75 percent of Mexican immigrants living in the United States--and nearly one third of immigrants from all Latin American countries--these difficulties are part of daily life.

As in other immigrant communities around the country, the large Hispanic community of Chicago, composed of recent documented and undocumented immigrants, faced such financial problems. Most were without banking services, paying high premiums to predatory financial businesses such as check-cashing services. Then, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) stepped in.

The FDIC branch in Chicago initially intended to fulfill one part of the 2001 "Partnership for Prosperity" agreement between the U.S. and Mexico. The agreement urged the U.S. to seek alternatives to the high-cost wire transfers to Mexico that many immigrants used to send money to families back home. Joining with the Mexican Consulate of Chicago, the FDIC created the New Alliance Task Force (NATF).

It was clear to members of the NATF that wire transfers were only the symptom of a larger problem: lack of access to financial services. Drawing on a coalition of 65 people from banks, mortgage industry representatives, community organizations, federal bank oversight agencies, and other government agencies, the NATF sought a comprehensive solution.

Four major working groups targeted specific problems; they addressed access to financial education, bank products and services, mortgage products, and social products. Each group developed specific strategies as well as programs to implement them.

In some cases, these solutions required dramatic change. Many immigrants lacked identification, which is usually required to open up even basic checking accounts. The NATF helped to sell the Matricula Consular card, issued by the Mexican consulate, as a valid form of banking identification. Partner banks began to accept income tax records to substantiate loan applications.

Other solutions employed common sense. Many in the immigrant population were suspicious of both banks and government presence in their lives. The NATF worked to overcome this by positioning bank representatives in the Mexican Consulate. As new immigrants waited in line for their identification cards, they heard about the benefits of banking.

The NATF's comprehensive programs helped nearly 160,000 immigrants to open bank accounts. Many thousands more received financial counseling, mortgage assistance, and other forms of support.

The success in Chicago has already prompted the FDIC to bring the NATF's innovations to other districts. Programs are underway in Charlotte/Raleigh, Boston, Austin, Kansas City and Los Angeles. More FDIC districts are scheduled to adopt similar initiatives.

Contact Information
Luke W. Reynolds
Division of Supervision and Consumer Protection
1333 S Mayflower Ave., Suite 450
Monrovia, CA 91016
(626) 359-7152 ex. 4115
lureynolds@fdic.gov

36 posted on 03/08/2007 10:31:22 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Which side are you on? George W. Bush's or America's?)
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To: From One - Many
Americans and Legal Immigrants are screwed if shamnesty is voted and signed into the law of the land.

You're right. The Country will slowly degenerate into a third world, socialist swamp perpetually governed by Democrats...and this will happen no matter how tough our President otherwise is on the WOT.

37 posted on 03/08/2007 10:35:12 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: aquila48

I believe we should give amnesty to these poor CRIMINALS or INVADERS.
This should be a 2 week amnesty to get the heck out of our Country.
The ones who ignore this amnesty should be buried in a tent city jail and fined $10,000 or buried elsewhere.
All aiders and abettors of these CRIMINALS or INVADERS should get 1 year in a tent city jail and a $10,000 fine for each CRIMINAL aided.
Those in government should be the first ones charged.


38 posted on 03/08/2007 10:40:39 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (!yaw gnorw eht su ekat lliw noitartsinimdA inailuiG A)
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CPAC 2007: The Unauthorized Documentary

Notice how Blumenthal juxtaposes Tancredo's speech with the part about Miami/3rd world to the young hispanic woman's discouragement to Norquist's warning.

39 posted on 03/08/2007 10:44:44 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: aquila48
I would add one thing more........ all illegals who want to become American Citizens must register with the Immigration Department and would be eligible for future citizenship in the order of proven date of illegal entry and our previously stated immigration quotas for Mexico .. Those who do not wish to register are forever banned from US citizenship. This plan would be subject to a total shut-down of illegal entry as a prerequisite.
40 posted on 03/08/2007 10:44:51 AM PST by soundapproach
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To: soundapproach

I would NEVER allow them to become US citizens - that is the punishment. If they want to become US citizens they should go back and stand in line.


41 posted on 03/08/2007 10:54:30 AM PST by aquila48
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

That seems to be the case, barring a major citizen uprising.


42 posted on 03/08/2007 12:07:43 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Misery loves miserable company.......ask any liberal. Hunter in 08!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Who cares about illegal aliens?

Who cares about open borders?

Who cares about abortion?

Who cares about the 2nd Amendment?

Who cares about gay marriage?

Who cares about socialized medicine?

/s

43 posted on 03/08/2007 1:29:18 PM PST by TigersEye (For Democrats; victory in Iraq is not an option!)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

If the border was mined no one would try to cross it thus no casualties.


44 posted on 03/08/2007 1:38:19 PM PST by TigersEye (For Democrats; victory in Iraq is not an option!)
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To: TigersEye

Short of the fence option (with signs and blaring klaxons that the land past the fence(s) is full of landmines), there would be a lot of accidents, probably quite a few with children--at least initially.


45 posted on 03/08/2007 1:44:00 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Nonsense. Signs are cheap and word-of-mouth would spread the news like wildfire (not to mention every radio and TV station on the planet) long before the job was done. No one would try to cross.


46 posted on 03/08/2007 1:57:19 PM PST by TigersEye (For Democrats; victory in Iraq is not an option!)
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To: TigersEye
"No one would try to cross."


Yes, there would be a few dumb asses who would think they could make it, there always are. Nothing short of a military presence on the border, with orders to shot, will stop them. While were at it.......send some military to visit the chairman of the RNC. *Regularization* equals *Amnesty* for those who are dense.
47 posted on 03/08/2007 3:16:16 PM PST by wolfcreek (Semi-Conservatism Won't Cut It)
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To: TomGuy
"We have to thank Rudy for Hillary ever getting elected to the Senate and becoming a force. Had she been defeated for the Senate in 2000, she would have become a political unknown in the historical footnotes alongside Geraldine Ferrarro. Thanks Rudy. You made her a Senator. Do you plan to make her the next President?(/s)"

That needed repeating...bump.

sw

48 posted on 03/08/2007 3:23:43 PM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife) (Duncan Hunter 08 "Will you join us"?)
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To: NormsRevenge

Except for blacks race is not an issue to base ones vote. Hispanic American Citizens by and large support protecting our borders and removing illegals. Black voting patterns indicate that race is the most important factor - not necessarily if one is black but one does what is best for blacks not America.


49 posted on 03/08/2007 3:40:54 PM PST by sasafras (Multiculturalism is a solvent invented by the left to destroy our culture and end our history)
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To: wolfcreek
Not many. Not for long. If uneducated peasants in Mexico and Central America can understand our pols are saying "amnesty" when they talk about "immigration reform" and they get that message within 24 hours of a policy speech here in the U.S. then they would grok "minefield." Armed guards present a challenge for them to fool. Minefields are pervasive, never take time off or move and can't be bluffed or intimidated.

A better solution altogether is to enforce current laws against employing illegals. Dry up the jobs and illegal aliens will deport themselves at their own expense. And they can afford it if they can send $20 billion back to Mexico every year.

50 posted on 03/08/2007 3:50:39 PM PST by TigersEye (For Democrats; victory in Iraq is not an option!)
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