[tsomer]

I'm not sure I agree that the Roman Empire collapsed. Many of the Germans were assimilated, in fact most of the legions were German. Alaric sacked Rome, but by then the capital was in Ravenna. Also, Alaric was Christian (though Arian) and according to the History channel paid homage at the church and forbid his soldiers from sacking it.

I just think the picture of the fall in the west exaggerates things, it took several hundred years. Eventually, Roman culture, combined with Christian ethics, reasserted itself.

Rome was only the Western empire. The Eastern empire continued until the Moslems overran it. That fall was more sudden and permanent, thanks to Mohammedanism.

Yes there are parallels between then and now, distressing ones. But the distinction gives some reason for hope.

[Sam Cree]

Well, there are elements of the Middle Eastern Islamic world who are pretty civilized too, notably Tehran, for instance. Also, I didn't assert that the Roman Empire collapsed, just that Rome was overrun. I guess I'm mainly trying to say that we underestimate Islam at our peril.

You are right though that the analogy between the Roman Empire and modern Western Civilization is not a perfect fit. Your points are well taken.