Posted on 03/30/2007 5:09:20 PM PDT by neverdem
I'd like to ask Mr. Horwitz whether the American colonies had a right to rebel against British rule.
For example?
Fourth - had houses searched and people arrested without judicial warrants having been issued.
For example?
Fifth - civilians arrested and held by military authorities and tried by military tribunals, although there were functioning civil tribunals available for use in those areas.
At that time the Ex Parte Milligan decision had not been handed down, had it? And there was no precedent for saying miliary tribunals could not be convened.
Sixth - the military tribunals did, of course, not provide the constitutionally guaranteed rights to a trial by jury.
I'm not sure where the Constitution says military tribunals must.
Eighth - the treatment of the prisoners would clearly be considered cruel and unusual today; it likely violated those standards even a century and a half ago.
How about by the standards of the times.
The Supreme Court agreed that Lincoln's actions were an affront to the Constitution.
And did the Johnson administration continue the practice after the court had made its ruling?
Milligan and his cohorts were arrested and tried for planning to steal army weapons and use them to assault a POW camp and free the prisoners. It's not like he was arrested for jaywalking or armed robbery or some clearly civilian offense. A case can be made for army jurisdiction. And Milligan was convicted and had the chance to appeal his sentence to the Supreme Court. It's interesting to note that had it happened in the confederacy a Bubba Milligan would have swung. There was no confederate supreme court to appeal to in spite of the fact that the rebel constitution required one.
I know that once again you are demonstrating to the entire forum that you haven't the faintest idea of what is the truth and what is false, what is history and what was pulled out of your enormous...imagination.
Where?
Legally neither spouse can take something claiming its their's, can they? Nor can either spouse legally abandon joint obligations like the mortgage or credit cards.
the so-called "declarations" were NEVER the official documents of ANY state. they were PRIVATE documents, which were read by FEW people other than the authors themselves, until the REVISIONISTS of the 1960s "discovered" them & used their argument to buttress the "slavery was all" theory of the war.
at BEST, the "declarations" should be seen as the RANTING of a FEW slave-OWNERS. they were NOT & are NOT indicative of anything else than the OPINIONS of the authors. at WORST they are MEANINGLESS to an understanding of the causes of the WBTS.
fyi, there was ONE main cause of the war: lincoln CHOSE war, rather than peace. the BLOOD of a MILLION Americans is on HIS hands and upon the rest of his "merry band of thugs, politicians, elitists & war profiteers".
next question???
free dixie,sw
too bad that we've "been blessed with" far too many of those sorts in power. lincoln was the FIRST, but SADLY not the last!
free dixie,sw
almost every time you post your DAMNyankee apologist, simplistic, DRIVEL, deceptions & outright LIES, i either grimace or laugh AT you.
of all the DAMNyankees on FR, you are the ONLY one who has BOTH a BRAIN & an EDUCATION.
you KNOW better. you simply refuse to DO better.
free dixie,sw
I've maintained all along that when it comes to flat out trashing of constitution and abuse of power nobody in our history has been worse than Jefferson Davis. But you all refuse to debate that. Every complaint you make about Lincoln can be laid at his feet as well, and a whole lot Lincoln would never have dreamed of.
i choose NOT to debate such a SILLY (and on your part,knowingly FALSE) premise.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
No, he didn't. It came through a petition for a writ of habeas corpus to the Circuit Court; There was no avenue for appeal to civilian courts from the illegal military tribunal. And no, appeal of right and a petition for an extraordinary writ are not the same.
Milligan and his cohorts were arrested and tried for planning to steal army weapons and use them to assault a POW camp and free the prisoners.
Without any real evidence to tie them to the alleged plot. If they had gotten a fair trial, instead of a kangaroo court, it is likely they would have been acquitted. Indeed, the grand jury didn't return a bill of indictment. "The petition set forth the additional fact, that while the petitioner was held and detained, as already mentioned, in military custody (and more than twenty days after his arrest), a grand jury of the Circuit Court of the United States for the District of Indiana was convened at Indianapolis, his said place of confinement, and duly empanelled, charged, and sworn for said district, held its sittings, and finally adjourned without having found any bill of indictment, or made any presentment whatever against him."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=71&invol=2
There is some useful background material here:
http://web.princeton.edu/sites/jmadison/about/docs/2005-Coleman%20Thesis.pdf
For example?
Are you asking me to track down all 12,000 names of Mr. Lincoln's victims for you? No thanks. Do it yourself. I'll start you with Milligan and his co-defendants and John Merryman, who was dragged from his home in Maryland at 2:00 in the morning. http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/suspension.htm
Effective commensurate with price. It would be a gross affront to the Second Amendment to suggest that the government could ban weapons that were affordable to common people as "unsuitable for military use".
The Court didn't exactly go into detail of what constituted military usefulness, but I would expect as a rule would be that for a weapon to not be well suited to military use, it must either:
Something like a pen gun, however, would probably not be protected since one could construct, more cheaply, a weapon that was in every militarily-meaningful way better.
Lincoln didn't choose war, Davis did. When he bombarded Sumter.
Not all, just a couple will do.
I'll start you with Milligan and his co-defendants and John Merryman, who was dragged from his home in Maryland at 2:00 in the morning.
Neither man was arrested for exercising free speech. And the suspension of habeas corpus had made warrants unnecessary. Care to try again?
Nine months is unrealistic when nursing babies. Once the babies are weaned, or they had a wet nurse, the mothers could resume ovulation once her prolactin level decreased enough.
Got any authority for that position?
Neither man was arrested for exercising free speech.
Milligan certainly wasn't arrested for any act he committed. The politicians just didn't like what he said, so they took him out of circulation before the election.
Seems like I'm the one who has been citing Supreme Court cases and naming names, you are the one who hasn't been able to come up with much in the way of facts.
It is my understanding that the OSS and SOE used pen guns. What would be a "militarily-meaningful way better" weapon for that usage by troops of that sort?
bump
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