Replies

>>I may have mis-stated. What I've been trying to get across is that after doing my own
>>research and contemplation and prayer, etc, researching the LDS church (for the
>>purpose of joining), I came to the conclusion that I can't honestly say that Mormons
>>are in fact Christian.

This is not the impression your post left m with (grin).

That said I think most will agree with me that no church can guarantee that all their members are Christians. I believe that That conversion is a personal thing, and you will not necessarily find out through research if a person is a Christian or not.

I do hope however that if I were on trial fro being a Christian that there would be sufficient evidence to convict me with out as lengthy trial (grin).

>>That doesn't mean that they aren't. That just means that I can't say for a sureity that
>>they are. I certainly hope they are.

How’s this, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints teaches Christianity. Now you may disagree with what we teach, you may say we have doctrines wrong, but we teach of Christ, we reserve the right to say the same of other churches.

>>Since I personally can't tell if a Mormon is a Christian or not, I would not vote for one
>>for POTUS. That's just my preference in who I vote for.

How do you know if anyone is Christian or not? (Bill Clinton carried around this huge Bible, and I don’t consider him a particularly good example of Christianity)

I think any religions “Politicians” would be a horrible way for that religion to be judged. (just my opinion)

>>I'm not going to tell someone that they aren't Christian, that's not my place.

That is what it sounded like at first I must admit.

>>But that doesn't mean that I necessarily believe that they are because they said so.

OK, so how do you tell? (I really do want to know)

>>I'm sure there are people who would think that I am not a Christian because of some reason or another. I'm sure most Mormons would view me as an apostate.

Pardon the questions, but were you a member? If not you cannot be “Apostate” if you just investigated, you are still an investigator, or maybe just non-member, but apostate is a term for those who have turned away from the truth after knowing it.

I do not consider you apostate.
I will also (in lieu of evidence to the contrary) take you at your word at you are a Christian.

>>I don't take offense to that, because I know that is just part of their belief system.

Good, I for one am offended by all the people who are so easily offended out there /humor

>>I would not begrudge them for not wanting to vote for me, for example, as Mayor of
>>Salt Lake City, since I am an apostate to them.

Have you ever heard Rocky Anderson talk about the church? I would want to know what your positions were, and then I would decide based on that.

>>The topic here is would I vote for a Mormon for President.

I thought it was whether or not his religion would affect your vote, but I am probably picking at nits here (hey it’s my hobby, OK?)

>>most Mormons I know are great people that I am proud to call friends and fellow citizens.

After making this statement I really don’t understand why you would not vote for a Mormon. Let me make a couple of statements about the teachings of the church tat should make a” Mormon President” more attractive than the same candidate who is not a Mormon.

1. Mormons believe the constitution to be an inspired document (s we would be likely to actually follow it)
2. Mormons Believe in obeying the law of the land (we quit polygamy because it became illegal so a Mormon should try to obey the law)
3. Mormons believe in keeping oaths, we are an oath making and keeping religion, so the oath of office should mean something to a Mormon president.
4. Mormons understand the history of Arabs as we are also descendant’s of Abraham (well most of us)
5. A Mormon president who slept around on his wife would find himself an Ex-Mormon President, where Bill Clinton still claims to be a Baptist.

None of these “Points” matter if the candidate in question does not hold conservative values which is why I am puling for Fred Thompson for POTUS.

>>
***(note, below when I say doctrine I am including the Journal of Discourses, BOM, POGP, etc; all of this is based on what I've studied and researched while investigating the church; yes, I am technically a member of the Church; but after really delving into the research, I have found the doctrine to not be true; Although I would suggest to you that the Mormon Church views all non-Mormon churches as Apostates via the great apostacy; this can be seen clearly in discourses and teachings by various Prophets of the church)***

The LDS doctrine teaches of a Jesus Christ who is the brother of Satan. It is that point of teaching that I have found no biblical basis. Therefore, I can't say that the Mormon doctrine is Christian because I don't believe that the Bible teaches that Satan and Christ are brothers, so the question FOR ME becomes what Christ does the Mormon church follow?

Also, the Mormon doctrine seems to contradict itself in regard to how we came into existence. The King Follet discourse teaches that God did not have the power to create our spirits, and that we always existed and that God simply organized us and directed us. And contrary to that teaching from the King Follet discourse, the Mormon doctrine also teaches that we were born in Heaven by Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. Both of those are totally contrary and mutually exclusive suppositions.

I believe and always have believed that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. The Mormon doctrine teaches that he is not Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

That, and other reasons, are why I can't say that the Mormon doctrine and people who practice it are Christian. I sincerely hope that they are Christian in God's eyes which is really all that matters. ***Remember, all of this is in the context of would I vote for one for president*** Would I treat Mormons as Christian Brothers and Sisters on an individual basis? Absolutely, without question. I'd give the shirt off my back to help a Mormon in need. Heck, even now, I have Mormon friends that I've know for decades. Needless to say, I don't get into in depth conversations (like here) about why I think they are wrong in their belief. Out of respect for them I would not as I don't think that would be the proper forum (i.e I play basketball at the local ward buildings with them, I even attend Sacrament frequently with my family).

>>I do hope however that if I were on trial fro being a Christian that there would be sufficient evidence to convict me with out as lengthy trial (grin).

Same here. God is going to judge me, and I am far from perfect and I am continuing to strive to ACT and BE as a Christian should be, and to live in true faith in Christ.

>>OK, so how do you tell? (I really do want to know)

I don't know if someone is a true Christian. I do have to make the personal judgement as to whether they are trying to be Christian. I look at their actions and their stated beliefs to help guide me. I've gone to several "born-again" churches and have gone to their service and not felt the presence of Christ (in fact, there isn't even a picture of Christ on their walls, but lots of pictures of the pastor). That's one thing that I do value in the Mormon church is that they do have Christ's picture in all buildings and there is a reverence in their services.

>>Have you ever heard Rocky Anderson talk about the church? I would want to know what your positions were, and then I would decide based on that.

No, I haven't heard anything about Rocky Anderson.

>>Pardon the questions, but were you a member? If not you cannot be “Apostate” if you just investigated, you are still an investigator, or maybe just non-member, but apostate is a term for those who have turned away from the truth after knowing it.

I technically still am a member. I go to Sacrament often along with my family members. Sealed in the Temple and received the Priesthood, but after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that the church doctrine is not true.

>> I thought it was whether or not his religion would affect your vote, but I am probably picking at nits here (hey it’s my hobby, OK?)

Yes, nit picking you are. :P

>> None of these “Points” matter if the candidate in question does not hold conservative values which is why I am puling for Fred Thompson for POTUS.

I'm still reserving judgement on Thompson. I think he has supported the Bush amnesty stuff and I think he's big on H1Bs and Free (but unfair) Trade. He does initially strike me as a Reagen-esque type, though.