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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

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To: ozzymandus
I intend to vote for the Republican nominee, no matter who. I’m hoping it will be a conservative, but I’ll never vote RAT.

I will have to agree with you. We have the primaries for a reason -- to weed out liberals, RINOs, closet socialists and others. But if such a candidate were to survive the primaries and with none but ourselves to blames, we still must stand behind our candidate. If Americans are expected to stand behind a president they did not vote for (in theory at least), then why shouldn't we stand behind a nominee that not all of us supported.

Agreed, the differences between Hillary and Rudy are not great but the prospect of Hillary in the oval office is just unimaginable ! It simply **CAN**NOT** be allowed to happen. I cannot emphasize this enough.

101 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:05 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: Jim Robinson
"Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?"

"Do you really expect me to do that?"

Hmmm... I'm goin' way out on a limb here and guessin' that you're not real likely to do that.

102 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:06 PM PDT by Nova
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To: Jim Robinson

That may be, but I damn near fear for my safety if Hillary gets elected.


103 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:12 PM PDT by infidel29 (...but sir, if my child had a fever I wouldn't go to a bureaucrat for the diagnosis.)
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To: Jim Robinson

I agree. And that’s not the only problem.

Most remember in 2000 when Jeffords jumped from the GOP and made Daschle the majority leader by one and Trent Lott the minority leader.

Then in 2002 when the dems lost big and Trent Lott became the majority Leader, Dashle was sitting in that chair in the lonely room the night they lost.

Then Lott was casted out and Frist became the majority leader. In Congress it was Delay and Pelosi.

They knew the names, they knew who Pelosi, Frist, Reid, Daschle, Hastert and Lott were and who they represented.

The difference now is this: Most Americans dont even know the name, the voice or face of the republican minority leader in the senate nor the republican in the house today.
Worse, A surprising number of politcal junkies now cannot name the two republicans in the house and senate.

UNopposed statements from Reid and Pelosi are considered to be “truth” by those who do not pay as much attention as we do. And “truth” is what they will go by when they go to vote in Nov. 2008.

Who in the republican party should be contacted about this problem? Who is responsible?

We need to cut this cancer now before it’s too late in 2008


104 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:20 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: Jim Robinson

"Well now, Jim, no, I really don't expect you to do that...Remember, All great change in America begins at the dinner table."

105 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:27 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Elections have consequences.)
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To: AZRepublican
Will FR embrace Hillary instead, removing any chance of getting another conservative on the court?

Why would a someone as liberal as Giuliani work to appoint conservatives to the court?

106 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:41 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: Jim Robinson

The world is not divided into two monolithic blocks of people labelled “conservative” and “liberal”. It’s a continuum, and Rudy would nominate SC justices further toward the conservative end of the continuum than Hillary would. The last thing we need is SC justices who’ve bought their positions from the Clinton machine, and base their decisions on PC sociobabble like “It takes a village to raise a child”.


107 posted on 04/21/2007 7:11:44 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: MrEdd
If I get a liberal in office who votes liberal while claiming (unchallenged) to represent the party with a conservative platform, then my voice is even more unheard than if a liberal democrat is in office. It means that conservatives will vote for anyone who claims conservatism, even if they are to the left of Hillary Clinton.

Perfect description of Arnold Schwarzenegger.
108 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:04 PM PDT by rottndog (American First, Conservative Second, Republican Increasingly Reluctantly...)
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To: Jim Robinson
THANK YOU JIM!

You could not have spelled this out more concisely.

A President Giuliani will be no different than another President Clinton.

After all, Rudy himself said that Clinton's positions were very much like his own.

I think we should take him at his word on that.

If the GOP nominates Giuliani, it is the end of the GOP. They will join the Reform Party in political oblivion.
109 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:10 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: Petronski
If the GOP nominates a pro-abortion gungrabbing liberal, they forfeit my vote, and that result is not my fault, but theirs.

Yeah but... isn't that a "vote for Hillary"? That's what I keep reading at this site.

110 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:15 PM PDT by Types_with_Fist (I'm on FReep so often that when I read an article at another site I scroll down for the comments.)
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To: Jim Robinson
OK. Hillary is a collectivist, while Rudy is not. Indeed, I would go further: were hillary to speak russian, she/it would be indistinguishable from the garden variety soviet nomenclaturists [their modus vivendi was “rules are for thee but not for me - I’m from the master race!”] - and I have seen enough of the type to speak from experience. I wouldn’t be able to say the same re Rudy, which alone - for me - suffices to make him acceptable. Given his perceived status as the strongest anti-hillary candidate, that makes him not only acceptable, but eminently deserving of support.
111 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:16 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: Spiff; pissant; narses; Reagan Man; EternalVigilance; TommyDale

enjoy the thread. I especially like post #56


112 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:33 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Rudy is an enemy to the US Constitution and to conservatism and his supporters should be ashamed of themselves for promoting an enemy to the cause.
This is about principle.
This is not about party.
113 posted on 04/21/2007 7:12:34 PM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: AZRepublican

If our only object was to stop HIllary, why don’t all the republicans simply switch to the democratic party and vote in the primary for John Edwards?

I’ll tell you — because there are more important things in life than “stopping hillary”. Hillary is not the problem, she is the symptom.

I get the impression some people would in fact vote for Obama, Edwards, or Gore if it would stop Hillary.


114 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:20 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Godebert

Of course not. I didn’t support Arnold. But like you, I don’t reside in California and had no say in the matter. I’m just saying that the stakes weren’t nearly as high.

And Arnold did at least posture himself as a “fiscal” conservative with no previous record to prove he was lying.

Rudy doesn’t have the same luxury.


115 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:24 PM PDT by streetpreacher (What if you're wrong?)
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To: Godebert

Don’t get overly sanctimonious. Presidents nominate justices to the Supreme Court. THAT is where the conservatism counts more than any other place.

While libs give us Ginsberg and Breyer, psuedo-libs give us Stephens and Souter. There really isn’t that much difference between the four.


116 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:32 PM PDT by beancounter13
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To: Jim Robinson

Way to go Jim!

I am sick of the “I’ll vote for any Republican” contingent. Electing a RINO just means a slightly slower slide into socialism.


117 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:37 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: GSlob

>Unless we subscribe to radically different definitions of “socialism”<

My definition of socialism is suicide.


118 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:48 PM PDT by Paperdoll ( Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: Man50D
“...You should reconsider your support for a socialist like Guiliani....”

And I asked you to do a google on “socialist.” I will not join a third party and cause a fracture in the Republican Party. The last time that happened, we got Slick Willy and the Hildebeast. I would consider Fred Thompson IF he ever decides to run, but he’s not my ideal candidate either.

119 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:56 PM PDT by KATIE-O (Rudy Giuliani - '08 (But Only If We Want To Win!))
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To: Jim Robinson

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

120 posted on 04/21/2007 7:13:56 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: rottndog

BUMP!


121 posted on 04/21/2007 7:14:34 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Paperdoll
Whatever happened to all those FReeper Conservatives?!

Some now refer to themselves as "social conservatives" or "moderate republicans". These are the people who try to convince conservatives they hold Conservative core principles while at the same time are willing to embrace at least some socialist views to the extent they will consider a socialist like Guiliani. They try to convince themselves and other there is a difference voting for socialist Guiliani or Socialist Clinton. They will only fool themselves in the long run and destroy the country in the process.
122 posted on 04/21/2007 7:15:05 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

That person STILL wouldn’t be Rudy McRomney...


123 posted on 04/21/2007 7:15:16 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

You might want to look into Rudy’s appointments record. And I will never ever accept or support or vote for an abortionist, gay rights loving, gun grabbing liberal for president or leader of my party anyway. Rudy is totally unacceptable and is out of the question.


124 posted on 04/21/2007 7:15:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: quidnunc

Why are you such a defeatist?


125 posted on 04/21/2007 7:15:53 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: rottndog

“I don’t thing the party has learned the lesson of 2006 yet.”

Neither do I!


126 posted on 04/21/2007 7:16:04 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Jim Robinson
God forbid!

Becki

127 posted on 04/21/2007 7:16:27 PM PDT by Becki (I pray daily for President Bush.)
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To: Jim Robinson
I think the chances of Rudy ever getting the nomination or of becoming president are somewhere between slim to none and not a snowball’s chance in hell.

That may be. Time will tell. But one would not necessarily come to that conclusion to look at the polls, or read the articles that accompany his various visits to towns and cities across the nation.

The election is a long way off, in a sense. Lots could happen. But conversely, the first debate is just weeks away. And at this moment in time, the race is between Rudy and McCain, with Rudy in front, and Romney also in the mix. That is a fact. And PS - I am one of the conservatives here...and Rudy is far from a socialist. I think it's hyperbole to call him one.

128 posted on 04/21/2007 7:17:16 PM PDT by veronica
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To: Jim Robinson

This is why you are my hero.


129 posted on 04/21/2007 7:17:28 PM PDT by stuned_beeber (Quit...Give up...Go home...- Vote Democrat!)
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To: streetpreacher
the GOP runs the risk of allowing a true third party threat to take shape in 2008. They won’t be able to win but it will ensure a Hillary presidency. She must be loving the idea of a Rudy nomination.

I agree that a substantial thid party draw would ensure a Hillary presidency. But I disagree that she must be loving the idea of a Rudy nomination -- Rudy couldn't win the FR vote, but he is capable of winning the national vote and defeating Hillary. Hillary is hating that idea. And it would be a very sad chapter in US political history if FR played into Hillary's hands, by drawing off Republican votes from Rudy to an unelectable third party candidate.

130 posted on 04/21/2007 7:17:40 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: quidnunc
In my opinion, everyone is looking at this election backwards. They are all picking their primary candidate based on how they will fare in the general.

That's asinine.

You pick the candidate in the primaries that most closely resembles your views. If you think Rudy will be the best President, vote for him. But you are voting for him based on electability you are going to lose every time.

Democrats always pretend to be conservatives to get elected. Remember when the reporter in 2004 tried to get Kerry to admit he was a liberal during the debate? He couldn't do it. The 2004 Democratic Convention was a stage production for fake patriotism. They win by the narrowest margins by convincing the mush in the middle to give them the benefit of the doubt.

What happens when the Republicans start acting and talking like liberals? They lose. Every time we vote for a squishy, quasi-conservative because he's "electable" we get a bigger, more powerful government, and the balance of power between the three branches gets further out of whack.

If the Republicans continue to operate under this "bigger tent" theory, our choices will soon change from Democrat or Republican to Communist or Socialist. If the Democrats didn't shoot themselves in the foot in their eagerness to push us over the edge every time they get in power we would be there already.

131 posted on 04/21/2007 7:18:33 PM PDT by Pan_Yan (All grey areas are fabrications.)
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To: veronica

Bump


132 posted on 04/21/2007 7:18:47 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Jim Robinson

Hell no! We ain’t giving up the fight.


133 posted on 04/21/2007 7:19:10 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: GSlob

“I find it implausible to associate Rudy with the meaning of ‘socialism” I learned by my own skin while living under it.”

Precision is not a FR strength. While the rest of America uses words like liberal, conservative and middle of the road, at FR anybody not a social conservative is a socialist.

And up to the post number here, there has not been one single word in this thread about national security, world terror threat.

The site is less and less in touch with reality, because those issues are near the top for voters.


134 posted on 04/21/2007 7:19:28 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Jim Robinson

“You might try paying a little attention to some of the conservatives here. I think the chances of Rudy ever getting the nomination or of becoming president are somewhere between slim to none and not a snowball’s chance in hell.”

Sweet to the ears. Those country clubbin establishment types are only a vocal minority. They will get their collective (pun intended) azzes kicked in the primaries. The nomination will eventually go to a conservative. But the swift surrender by the hierarchy of the GOP is a battle as important as the nomination. Conservatives need to work to kick them out. Freepers need to join your local GOP Party/Club/Central Committee and start changing things again.


135 posted on 04/21/2007 7:19:46 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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To: Enosh; Jim Robinson
Uh..., Jim?
You just deleted someone who joined nine years ago.
Take it easy.

Noooo do NOT 'take it easy' Jim, it doesn't matter if someone joined nine years ago or nine minutes ago, if they are promoting ANYTHING favorable to that stealth-'Rat/RINO-Rudy, they've got no business here.

There's been too much 'takin' it easy' already.

If FR is indeed getting some spring cleaning, I say AMEN!
136 posted on 04/21/2007 7:20:15 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: JustaDumbBlonde
Aw Geeze. What do you know? You’re just a dumb blonde.
137 posted on 04/21/2007 7:20:40 PM PDT by streetpreacher (What if you're wrong?)
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To: Man50D

1) “Social Conservative” is a term ACTUALLY used to describe those to whom social issues (anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc) are far more important than any other issues.

2) Ok, so your definition of “socialism” is? (and no, it’s not “anything I disgree with”.)


138 posted on 04/21/2007 7:20:57 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: GovernmentShrinker

If the party nominates a candidate that alienates and drives away a significant portion of the base, that’s the fault of the party and the candidate, not the people who choose to vote their conscience.


139 posted on 04/21/2007 7:21:09 PM PDT by rottndog (American First, Conservative Second, Republican Increasingly Reluctantly...)
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To: veronica
Abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, gun grabbing, sanctuary cities for illegals, etc, are about as far from conservatism as you can get. And, yes, I believe all of this B/S is brought to us by the godless socialists. If you support all this crap, no way are you a conservative.
140 posted on 04/21/2007 7:21:29 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: KATIE-O; Jim Robinson
And I asked you to do a google on “socialist.”

Then you should also tell Jim Robinson he doesn't know the meaning of socialism given the title of this thread.

I will not join a third party and cause a fracture in the Republican Party.

You fail to recognize the Republican party is already fractured because of the increasing socialism. You need to ignore party labels and focus on the fact both parties are embracing the same socialist ideology. They are essentially one party. Forming a Conservative party would restore the two party system.
141 posted on 04/21/2007 7:21:35 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: pookie18; Peach

>Wasn’t even a FReeper in 2000, but supported Alan Keyes & then voted for W.<

Neither was I, but I worked very hard for Pat Buchanan & then voted for W. Alan Keyes wasn’t on the ballot in Washington State. But never again will I compromise my principles to vote for “the lesser of two evils”.


142 posted on 04/21/2007 7:21:46 PM PDT by Paperdoll ( Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have thought I have been on a very liberal site during these past few weeks.


143 posted on 04/21/2007 7:22:31 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: Jim Robinson

No. I would hope not.


144 posted on 04/21/2007 7:22:58 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
“The world is not divided into two monolithic blocks of people labelled “conservative” and “liberal”. It’s a continuum, and Rudy would nominate SC justices further toward the conservative end of the continuum than Hillary would.”

Yeah, like Gerald Ford, the last complete Rino president? Remember his nominee? Stevens..He’s still cursing our lives thirty years after Ford left office.

No Rudy. No way.

145 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:02 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: Pan_Yan

“In my opinion, everyone is looking at this election backwards. They are all picking their primary candidate based on how they will fare in the general.”

That’s what the dems did in 2004.

Look what that got them.


146 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:20 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Cultural Marxism leads ultimately to economic Marxism...


147 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:22 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: quidnunc
"Like it or not, the candidates preferred by this board — Fred Thompson, Newt Gingrich, Duncan Hunter, et al — are certain losers."

That's not an obvious fact. I think a Thompson vs. Clinton race (for example) could go either way.

148 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:25 PM PDT by Nova
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To: Man50D
You need to ignore party labels and focus on the fact both parties are embracing the same socialist ideology.

Both parties are advocating government control of the means of production?

149 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:28 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Paperdoll

“My definition of socialism is suicide.” - Not every suicide is a socialist, although some are; and what to do about such socialists as kim, fidel, hillary and the rest? It would be great for the mankind were they to off themselves, but they do not. Thus your definition is erroneous. Even if you expand it into “mass suicide”, it would not be able to stand. Look at all the collectivist places - despite mass murders and general brutality, they survive.


150 posted on 04/21/2007 7:23:35 PM PDT by GSlob
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