Ranger told to conceal Tillman info

Yahoo! News ^ | 04/24/2007 | SCOTT LINDLAW and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writers

[BurtSB]

How many times is the Tillman family going to waste my tax dollars on this non stop bitterness crap.
Yes the guy died of friendly fire , its sad to say but occurs often.
So, there bitterness over who told them when means they give the Dems another mud throwing session at the WH all for the 2008 election cycle.
The bitter mother and brother go around making wild accusations .
The Tillman family’s personal Dem oriented politics are now showing !
Enough is enough.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I'm very serious. I learned absolutely nothing new from this hearing. Nothing.

Thanks for the synopsis. The fact that this has gone on so long shows how the MSM pretty much says whatever they want about anything.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Oversight Committee Holds Hearing on Tillman, Lynch Incidents

Full Video of the Hearing

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1267

[montag813]

Their actions and behaviors regarding how Tillman’s death was initially reported was reprehensible to say the least. And, as you said, it does not lessen his heroism in the field.

That is all I am saying. He was a hero. He didn't have to go down in a hail of Taliban bullets to earn that respect. I don't know of any "evidence" either way, only what some of those who were on the ground are saying about it. And those some are saying that the brass squelched the friendly-fire story for much longer than they should have. We will find out much more soon.

[SoldierDad]

Your comments are right on point.

[SoldierDad]

When news of a tragic death could undermine morale, embolden the enemy, and put more of our men in danger, you'd better d@mn well believe that our military brass will cover it up.

And rightly so!!!! Great post. Thanks.

[SoldierDad]

We will find out much more soon.

Ah, but I wonder whose version we will be given? When there is politics being played you can rest assured that spinning will be in full effect.

[Let's Roll]

I was going to come on this thread and say that if I were a family member of someone killed by “friendly fire”, I would rather not know that. It doesn’t bring him back and it seems like it would hurt even more.

But after reading Pat Tillman’s mother’s quotes, this is just another attempt to lynch the WH.

Way to go, Tillman family. Pat would be so proud. Bet you have Cindy Sheehan on speed dial.

[Bahbah]

after reading Pat Tillman’s mother’s quotes, this is just another attempt to lynch the WH.

That is all this is.

[berstbubble]

I cannot believe all of the posters on this thread who support lying to this family.

This was not a white lie told to protect an investigation or calm a potentially volatile brother.

The Army spun an entire set of lies that hid the truth about Tillman’s death and on top of that they developed a false scenario to try to turn his death into a dramatic, heroic act to use him as a poster boy. His leavine a lucrative career was heroic. His volunteering for the Rangers and combat was heroic. Then they saw his death as an opportunity- ghoulish.

They hurt this family and the realization by the American people of what happened has weakened the war effort.

If you are a family in Iowa, listening to a military officer describe how and why your son is not coming home, how many mothers and fathers are going to doubt the story. How many, now have a tiny grain of doubt, “If they lied to the family of Pat Tillman, how can I know that they are not lying to me?”

[steelyourfaith]

Pat Tillman remains an American hero ... his family not so much.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The Army spun an entire set of lies that hid the truth about Tillman’s death and on top of that they developed a false scenario to try to turn his death into a dramatic, heroic act to use him as a poster boy.

Not according to the IG, who seemed to be the only non-hysteric at the hearing today.

According to HawaiianGecko, who actually watched the proceedings today:

I watched the entire testimony today on C-Span and the author is leaving a bunch out. First, the Tillman's came across nearly as lunatics. I'm not saying they didn't encounter a terrible tragedy, but they really had the tin foil wrapped tightly. They could not answer a single question asked of them and continuously wandered back to rambling. The I.G. that investigated states flat out that none of several reports and investigations ever said Tillman was killed by anything other than friendly fire.

Rep. Issa of California had the best questions. He kept asking them who "they" was in their stories. They didn't know. He asked if they had even a shred of evidence that any of this was done for political reasons and their response was all hypothetical. Not a bit of evidence. Just answers like "Everyone knows that military-101 says you don't split into two groups." Huh?

Seems like the only ones developing any false scenarios are the surviving Tillmans.

[berstbubble]

“Seems like the only ones developing any false scenarios are the surviving Tillmans.”

_____________________

I don’t see connection between the Tillman’s not being polished during this hearing and what seems to be your position that no one from the military lied in regards to this case.

The official story is plainly a lie, Tillman did not die fighting the enemy. The narrative supporting the award of his citation was fabricated, Tillman did not die fighting the enemy. The Navy Seal who gave his eulogy at the public memorial service testified that the words that he had spoken were not true. At least one of his team members testified that he was ordered not to tell the truth to Tillman’s brother.

I really can’t see how it is relevent that the Tillman family did not put on an impressive performance today, or how that fact somehow means that all of the other witnesses were in error.

I am not saying that the IG did not see reports that stated Tillman died in an act of friendly fire, however, these reports may have been internal. There are plenty of examples of members of the military working to put a different public face on the story.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I don’t see connection between the Tillman’s not being polished during this hearing and what seems to be your position that no one from the military lied in regards to this case.

berstbubble
Since Apr 15, 2007

So what was your previous screen name before you were banned?

[berstbubble]

Again, an absolute non sequitir.

The Tillman episode is a black eye on our military. Had the whole thing been handled better the damage would be far less. Someone should be chewed out and handed his/her walking papers so it never happens again. I don’t understand why you are so willing to reward those who failed here by turning a blind eye.

[HawaiianGecko]

The official story is plainly a lie, Tillman did not die fighting the enemy.

The official story is that Tillman died in a friendly fire accident and this has been their position since May of 2004. 

The narrative supporting the award of his citation was fabricated, Tillman did not die fighting the enemy. The Navy Seal who gave his eulogy at the public memorial service testified that the words that he had spoken were not true.

None of the investigations into the death of Cpl Tillman ever stated anything other than fratricide. From the DOD's I.G. Report:

Memorandum For Acting Secretary of the Army: Subject: Review of matters related to the Death of Corporal Patrick Tillman, U.S. Army.

None of CPL Tillman's superiors complied with these requirements. Instead, after clear evidence of fratricide emerged the day following the incident, CPL Tillman's battalion commander (a lieutenant colonel three levels below the Combatant Commander), with the concurrence of his regimental commander, appointed a subordinate Army captain to investigate.  That investigation, completed in about 2 weeks, determined CPL Tillman's death was fratricide caused by leadership failures and tactical errors.

That was the 1st thorough investigation.

The second one, instigated due to dissatisfaction with the thoroughness of the first one:

CPL Tillman's regimental commander (a colonel) ordered his own executive officer (a lieutenant colonel) to conduct a second investigation. That investigation, building upon the first, was completed in 9 days, confirmed death by friendly fire, and provided expanded findings on the contributing tactical errors.

http://www.defenselink.mil/home/pdf/Tillman_Redacted_Web_0307.pdf

NEXT:

The scope of our review included interviews of over 100 witnesses and over 20,000 staff hours. As we'll discuss in greater detail, there were three sequential Army Regulation 15-6 investigations into the death of Corporal Tillman. The investigations occurred at the battalion, regimental and command level. 

 

                As a preliminary matter, we concluded that despite shortcomings, each investigation established the basic facts for Corporal Tillman's death, that it was caused by friendly fire; that the occupants of one vehicle in Corporal Tillman's platoon were responsible; and that circumstances on the ground at the time caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. 

 

                None of the investigations suggested Corporal Tillman's death was other than accidental. Our review as well as the investigation just briefed to you by the Army CID reveal no evidence contrary to those findings. 

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=3917
Presenter: Thomas Gimble, DoD Acting Inspector General; Brigadier General, Rodney Johnson, Commander, U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Command; Pete Geren, Acting Secretary Of The Army; General Richard Cody, Army Vice Chief Of Staff

News report the day of Tillman's death:
Ex-NFL player Tillman dies during military action in Afghanistan
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2004-04-23-tillman_x.htm

From staff and wire reports

Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinals safety who left football to become an Army Ranger, was killed in southeastern Afghanistan, U.S. officials said Friday.

Although the military had not officially confirmed his death, the White House put out a statement of sympathy that praised Tillman as "an inspiration both on and off the football field."

Lt. Col. Matt Beevers, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Kabul, confirmed that a U.S. soldier was killed Thursday evening, but would not say whether it was Tillman. A military official at the Pentagon confirmed it was Tillman.

Beevers said the soldier died after a firefight with anti-coalition militia forces about 25 miles southwest of a U.S. military base at Khost, which has been the scene of frequent attacks.

Two other U.S. soldiers on the combat patrol were injured, and an Afghan soldier fighting alongside the Americans was killed. Notice the section that says: Beevers said the soldier died after a firefight with anti-coalition militia forces  This is correct!  They had just been in a firefight (see IG report) minutes before.  That's why one of their vehicles was disabled. The military told the truth. The press may have stretched it a bit.




In short the government never said it was anything other than fratricide. The official story has always been fratricide. So who's the one lying?

I watched the entire hearing on C-Span today, every moment of it.  The Inspector General clearly differed with Waxman and said there is no evidence of a cover up, period, the end.

[HawaiianGecko]

I forgot to ping you on #56, sorry.

[berstbubble]

I fully agree that there is no official cover-up, no crime and no one to blame. It does appear, however, that some pencil pusher somewhere tried to turn the Tillman story and seemingly the Jessica Lynch story into some Hollywood recruitment poster story- maybe to help encourage support for the war or for some other reason.

For good or ill, in Tillman’s case, the family got hurt and I believe that we owe it to all of the families of our soldiers to give them better.

Tillman was obviously a hero- no question, but the way this was handled gives the enemy, foreign and domestic, an opportunity to smear the war effort while claiming to be advocates for the family. That is why this is so injurious.

[HawaiianGecko]

You may want to read this Washington Post article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35717-2004Dec4_5.html

Kevin Tillman, Pat's brother in the hearing today was a part of Pat's platoon.  He arrived on scene 9 minutes after his brother was killed.  He was in "serial-2" behind them coming up the mountain. Yet according to Henry Waxman and other Democrats the Pentagon is responsible.  Does that sound logical to you or anyone? 
Could the Pentagon or more importantly Karl Rove and President Bush actually conceive of and initiate a story in 9 minutes of his death.  There were dozens of witnesses, both American and Afghani, guys very friendly with Pat Tillman and other grunts in this unit.  Do you really suppose Kevin didn't figure it out on his own sitting high in the mountains of Afghanistan while others whispered around him?

I have all the pathos on the planet for Kevin Tillman and his family, but I'm beginning to think that Kevin's moral indignation is false. In short, he knew how his brother died.  Saw a hero story develop in the press and simply went with it.  Five weeks later the DOD burst the bubble with the results of their investigation.  He now has to face his mother and father.  By mid 2004 the tin foil being wrapped by Howard Dean, John Kerry, Michael Moore, George Soros and the remainder of the Move-On crowd, probably seemed an appropriate way out for the guy.

The above 3^rd paragraph is simply theoretical mind you, but the first two are simply facts.

Another interesting thing to do is a LexisNexis or probably even a Google news search on Pat Tillman starting on April 23, 2004 the day he was killed. All articles quote a military spokesman who basically says Pat Tillman was killed during a firefight. All of that is true and it is published in hundreds of articles printed in papers all across the country.  The next day that same quote appears in Sports Illustrated along with a bit more embellishment.  Two days later ESPN is talking hero and interviewing Pro-ball players like Jake Plummer who all say what a great guy and hero Tillman was. Three days later everyone is into the mix.  Yet funny enough, still 3 days into the story the Pentagon still hasn't said a word except for the initial blurb that P. Tillman was killed.  In fact on MSNBC on 4/26/04 3 days later they printed a Spokesmen at the Defense Department and the Army would not comment Friday, in keeping with a policy that no U.S. casualties of war be identified for at least 24 hours. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4815441

Yeah, something doesn't ring true here, but clearly 3 days after his death the DOD isn't talking yet every football coach, player, congressman and senator including John McCain and Jon Kyle have given glorious statements of PT.  And you're right, some pencil pusher somewhere started going Hollywood on us, but we call them journalists, not Mr. Secretary or Mr. President. 

Please don't misunderstand me. Pat Tillman is truly a hero regardless of how he died.  Hell, in my opinion he deserves the CMH and a Silver Star just for giving up a lucrative salary in a very unforgiving business ruled by youth and physical fitness.  A sport that I'm sure he knew he would never return.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Thanks for the ping!