Posted on 04/30/2007 10:08:12 AM PDT by bedolido
RICHMOND, Va. -- Virginia's governor said Monday he has closed the loophole that allowed a mentally disturbed Virginia Tech student to acquire the guns he used to kill 32 classmates and faculty on April 16 in Blacksburg.
Gov. Timothy M. Kaine said he issued an executive order requiring immediately that the names of persons found dangerous and ordered to undergo involuntary mental health treatment be entered in a database barring the sale of firearms.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailypress.com ...
Yes, they can. They are ‘non immigrant aliens’ and have to produce a hunting license to purchase ‘sporting’ firearms (whatever those are.)
If someone would pose an unacceptable danger to society if not forbidden from purchasing a firearm, that person would pose an unacceptable danger to society, period.
If someone's condition is sufficiently dangerous to justify keeping him locked up, fine. No guns for him. But I don't see anything good about expanding the state's authority to disarm people for whom it has not accepted absolute responsibility (e.g. felons in prison, committed mental patients, etc.)
Some examples of nutnicks who have done bad things:
Gamil al-Battuti flew EgyptAir Flight 990 into the Atlantic Ocean. No accounts of his life indicate that he was a member of the Happy Jihad Suicide Club, which means he purposefully crashed the plane for other reasons.
Andrew Goldstein stopped taking his meds and pushed Kendra Webdale in front of a subway train. Webdale died.
Julio Perez pushed Edgar Rivera n front of another subway train. Rivera lived, but he lost both legs.
Julio Gonzalez' lawyers tried to argue insanity when he was tried for murdering 87 people at the Happyland Social Club fire, but the court was not persuaded. Gonzalez was one of the many rejects from the Mariel boatlift.
Scott Harlan Thorpe killed three people because he was convicned that his psychaiatrist conspired with the FBI and the manager of a local restaurant to poison his food. He was nuts.
Forget these individuals for a moment, there are plenty more of them. We are not serving the mentally ill population by neglecting them in the name of civil liberies. We are leaving them to rot in psychotic states because we have taken the idea of civil liberties past the point of common sense.
So, depression isn't a mental illness?
If you read my post I asked to "define mental illness", as that is a very broad brush and can be anything from depression to schizophrenia.
A green card holder is a resident alien. Green Card Test: An alien is a U.S. resident if the individual is a Lawful Permanent Resident under the immigration law of the United States at any time during the calendar year. This is known as the green card test because these aliens generally hold immigration Form I-551 (also known as a green card).
The green card is an immigration form. A green card holder is considered a lawful permanent resident of the United States. They are substantially different than an international student who is on an F-1 or J-1 status and cannot purchase a weapon. However, if you will check:
http://www.atf.gov/pub/qtrly_bulletins/vol1_qb2002/subpartc.pdf you will see that for gun shows and other activities, such as hunting (Canadians generally), they may apply for an import license. However, Cho was not in a non-immigrant classification, nor did he import, he purchased it.
Mentally ill and mentally incompetent are radically different terms. Depression and PTSD by themselves are mental illnesses, but the patients do not present a danger to himself or others. They are not mentally incompetent. There may be other things going on that do present dangers, but many mental conditions by themselves are not dangerous.
The much overused ADHD is a mental illness. No one suggests that a person with ADHD is dangerous. Retardation or Autism may make a person mentally incompetent. A mildly retarded person may be able to funstion with some assistance. A severely retarded person can’t enter into contracts because he can’t understand them.
A person with advanced Alzheimer’s disease is often adjuged mentally incompetent. Their minds are gone.
Arguing that no one should restrict the rights of those adjudged mentally incompetent becasue it will affect the mentally ill is a chimera. I’m not suggesting such a thing. I am saying that we are not addressing the problems of mentally incompetent persons and this is one of the ways it shows.
Answer R1 and R2 adress these questions on the BATFE FAQ page.
'Sporting firearm' and 'sporting purpose' are two of the most obnoxious federal government terms I know. A non immigrant alien can bring a firearm into this country for a competition, but if it breaks, he can't get another one unless he buys a hunting license.
Yes, but these are exceptions that will be dealt with on a case by case basis. The easiest way to change this is by working within the state where a person resides to change the regulations for issuing hunting licenses. In general if a student does not hold a hunting license, then they will be unable to obtain a gun. This is states’ rights issues pure and simple. The hunting license appears to be the loophole here.
R1) May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?
Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.
There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:
nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;
nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;
certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;
officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;
foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and
persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.
Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.
[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(b) and 922(y), 27 CFR 478.124, ATF Rul. 2004-1]
The ‘sporting firearm’ exemption is not a case by case rule. The hunting license requirement is a blanket rule. I’ve had plenty of customers on work and student visas, buy a hunting license and you can buy the gun. There’s a space to record the license number on the 4473.
The waiver from the State Department is a case by case procedure, but a person would be silly to spend months applying for such a thing when he could just buy a non resident small game tag for fifty bucks and he’s good.
I mean that those licenses are regulated by the states. The case by case that I am referring to is that each state determines the licensing. Each state appears to have the power to regulate hunting licenses. I am not sure if we want to go there on that or what the implications would be - sounds kind of weird to deny hunting licenses? However, it does look as if the hunting license regulation is piggy-backing on firearms regulations. Since you deal with this, do you see this as problematic? Firearms regulations are touchy enough - I cannot imagine regulating hunting licenses so strictly. Do you see some grave danger in the current regulations?
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