Posted on 05/02/2007 3:45:25 PM PDT by Types_with_Fist
You're so clever.
I think they are talking about a different person.
Seems to me if your staff has custody of the emergency water, they should have given it to him the moment he hallucinated. AT that point it became criminal.
So a question now merits insults .... build a bridge ... get over yourself.
I say if you take people out to do hairy things you are responsible for them.
I think the instructor liked being in charge. I don’t think the instructor knew how to be responsible. Big difference.
Yup. It's like saying you're "tough enough" to resist electrocution. You can't fight physiology.
I think the 'school' is screwed here. Once he asked for water he had given up the fight. Their obligation was to provide it unless he rescinded his request. It might not be criminal (haven't looked at the laws), but his family will pocket some cash from this. Too bad he's dead - no amount of money will console them.
I kind of agree. A bear watching trip where some really random thing happens is one thing; someone asking for water and then dying because they didn't get it is another...
I didn’t realize one could die of thirst in 10 hours.
I haven’t laughed so hard in months! Thanks.
“Oh yeah, in some cases. Google “Good Samaritan Laws.””
Talk about leaving the door wide open...........
Pretty much.
We call it "evolution in action".
Also, the people hosting this "survival training" were clearly every bit as stupid as he was. The first clue was not letting them fill their canteens at the creek at the beginning of the trek.
I used to think about that when I was long distance running in the summer in Texas. That water isn't doing me any good sloshing around on my water belt. I needed to get it in me for it to help. At a reasonable pace of course so as not to get sick. And you're right, hyponatremia (low sodium) has only been recognized for the threat it is in the last few years. If you're low on your electrolytes, drinking more water is just going to dilute you even more. They used to preach drinking as much water as you could, until a few people died from it. It's not as much a danger as dehydration so I say drink all you want, but don't force it and get some electrolytes in your system while you're at it.
Course when I was a kid we used to have to take salt tablets if we were out in the heat for an extended period of time. Then salt became "bad". I don't even know if you can get those things any more. I eat a lot of salted sunflower seeds to keep my sodium up.
I'm not running these days, but I do a lot of Bikram "Hot" Yoga, 90 minutes in a 110 degree room. You can lose 4-5 pounds on a humid day. You'll cramp up bad if you do that for a few days without suplementing your salt, calcium, and (I'm told) magnesium.
At moderate temperatures and humidity you’re good for much longer - about three days I think. In the hot dry air of the desert it “wicks” away a lot faster.
Their was a history show on awhile ago about these three guys lost at sea in their boat with nothing to drink etc. They finally risk the natives of Africa in search of water. Still no water (desert), and instead they got picked up by slavers, etc.
They drank their own urine in the boat, which once or twice did some good. But on the fourth time around it was dark brown and with no water left in it! (YUCK!) Once the slavers took them they only got a little water when found. But they were able to drink the camels’ “fresh” urine! (Yuckier!).
Guess they'll be changing their name to Boulder Assisted Suicide School. Boulder is such a nutty place, nobody will blink an eye.
Those have only been passed in Latham, Massachusetts.
IMO, the people who run BOSS will lose a wrongful death civil suit. They were obviously untrained to recognize heatstroke and severe dehydration.
If you are gonna see how tough you are, you don’t walk into daytime desert hikes without a LOT of physical training. The BOSS course is taking people who are physical unprepared for this kind of ordeal pushing them beyond the breaking point. That is insane.
Also, the basic premise of the course is flawed. What is the object of the course? To survive or to see how tough you are? From reading this article, this isn’t a survival course but a physical endurance/toughness course. There is a HUGE difference.
Terri Schiavo lasted 14 days without water. Think of all the resources that could have been saved if they'd dropped her off at this place.
And I note this guy's death was so incredibly peaceful.
In all seriousness, this is very sad.
Not only that, but how many people who may have walked 30 miles on a treadmill have never faced real endurance tests? How many people start whining the moment the first mile marker is reached?
That would be me...I NEED A TWINKIE! I NEED A ROOTBEER! What do you mean we haven’t left the lodge?
I remember hiking a seven mile hike in a Maryland park. Hills and trees, and everything like that. Started off great, but by mile five, I was ready to die. I learned a lot from it.
THe main thing I learned was to not do 7 mile hikes.
Most of what the survival training guides were teaching sounds completely wrong to me. As someone else said, it was more of a “see how tough you are” endurance course than a real survival course.
“In a Feb. 27 letter to the Forest Service, Bernstein said Buschow may not have trained properly, pointing to comments he made to another camper about drinking a gallon of water a day and eating cheesesteaks to bulk up before the expedition.”
I have read that people eat high fat, high calorie foods when they hike the Appalachian Trail all summer. They still burn fat and calories like crazy and end up losing weight. It sounds like this guy was doing a similar thing, and loading up on calories (energy stores).
I went on a National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS) course back in 1978 in the Wyoming mountains. They teach you how to function in the outdoors. We hiked out the last four days without food, but you don't need food over the course of a few days to survive. Water, however, is critical after two or three days.
I imagine NOLS would not teach that you walk in the midday sun to get to water in the desert. You would walk at dawn or dusk (or nighttime if there is a moon) - to conserve the fluid in your body - and hide in the best shade you can find at midday. This, IMO, was just stupid - if you don't die of dehydration, you can die of heat stroke.
I have read that people eat high fat, high calorie foods when they hike the Appalachian Trail all summer. They still burn fat and calories like crazy and end up losing weight.
I dropped a lot of weight backpacking for a month in that course (not eating for four days just accellerated it at the end).
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