Tories storm out of meeting on sharing energy with U.S

canada,com ^ | May 11, 2007 | Kelly Patterson

[GMMAC]

Plus, reds everywhere are such shameless hypocrites - it's like a de facto job description.

Our anti-American vermin, aside from habitually & ironically aping the 'evil U.S. / blame Bush' nonsense of their Stateside fellow travelers, routinely lose bowel control if a Yank politico anywhere to the right of Joe Lieberman so much as casts a stray glance northward.

But ... let the likes of Bill Clinton, Al Gore or Michael Moore deem to pay a visit and they'll literally stand in line for the opportunity to kiss both cheeks!

Incidentally, you are talking to someone who - for well over 2 years until she finally vacated Ottawa - employed the FR tagline:
paraphrasing Parrish: "damned Liberals, I hate those bastards!"

[Badeye]

You have a small minority of rabid leftwingnuts, same as we do.

Key word, thankfully, is ‘small’.

[GMMAC]

While we may have a few more per capita - imho, largely due to having been a 'net importer' of same from the U.S. in the late 60's & early 70's - Canada (and especially Ontario) is a lot like New York State in the sense that, once you get past the urban areas, you find lots of nice 'normal' type folks.
(dunno what part of Ohio you're from but, surely merely contrasting Buffalo with surrounding Erie & Niagara Counties largely proves my point, eh?)

Wish I had a buck for every time I've posted:
Neither citizenship nor geographic locale has much, if any, bearing on liberal denial and/or stupidity.

[Badeye]

“dunno what part of Ohio you’re from but, surely merely contrasting Buffalo with surrounding Erie & Niagara Counties largely proves my point, eh?) “

Yes, it does, especially since we have family up around Buffalo.

[Constantine XIII]

Some people seem to be able to think only in terms of bumper sticker slogans. That’s great it they manufacture bumper stickers, but otherwise, it is just really annoying.

[Constantine XIII]

Oh, some people have gone off the deep end alright, but it isn’t W.

LOL

[Badeye]

Some people can’t grasp a concept that isn’t able to fit on a bumper sticker.

Thats the bigger worry too me.

[GMMAC]

Just to be clear, I love & routinely visit the Falls/Lewiston area while avoiding 'the Queen City' like the plague.
Growing up right across from the Niagara Frontier and easily receiving all its local TV & radio stations, trust me I'm intimately familiar with the whole area and still, for example, catch Rush via WBEN am-930.

I've always assumed it's primarily the Military presence in the former which give it its distinct far more patriotic, 'salt of the earth' & stereotypically 'good American' flavor?

Incidentally, if especially as an immediate neighbor you'd like to be added to our mostly Canada ping list, merely FReepmail either Fanfan or me indicating as much.

[Constantine XIII]

Whatchya trying to say there, buddy?

[Badeye]

Will do.

[ckilmer]

nah, there's just a bunch of guys who are going to pee away their time on loser projects like bulk water transfers

[doc30]

Why don’t you post a link showing where it is being done commercially somewhere in the world since you claim it more economic. I recognize the molecular structure is capable of being altered to ethanol if you spend enough energy. Plastics and pharmaceuticals are not ethanol.

I don't waste my time on anti-science luddites. You know nothing of chemistry. Plastics and pharmaceuticals are more complicated to synthesize than ethanol. Ethanol from petroleum is not commercialy done because of competition from farming subsidies that artifically lower the cost of agriculturally produced ethanol. It's the corporate welfare to farmers that prevents oil companies from making ethanol. Take away the oil subsidies and you then have a petrochemical market for ethanol. Scientific AMerican had a very good laymans article on this subject. Bottom line is that it takes about as much energy to produce ethanol agriculturally than you get out of it.

[thackney]

don't waste my time on anti-science luddites. You know nothing of chemistry.

LOL!!! You must be new to the energy threads.

Plastics and pharmaceuticals are more complicated to synthesize than ethanol.

Yes they are. That is also why they are more expensive. Ethanol is rather relatively easy to make through fermentation compared to polymers and pharmaceuticals.

Ethanol from petroleum is not commercialy done because of competition from farming subsidies

Ethanol from fermentation of grains and sugars has been produced in this country far longer than the current subsidies. And fermentation is used in the other parts of the world that do not have the US attempted social engineering.

It's the corporate welfare to farmers that prevents oil companies from making ethanol. Take away the oil subsidies and you then have a petrochemical market for ethanol.

Ethanol and Petroleum are global products. If your claim of economic production were true, we would see it elsewhere in the world.

Scientific AMerican had a very good laymans article on this subject.

I agree it is theoretically possible to produce. I disagree that it is more economical.

Bottom line is that it takes about as much energy to produce ethanol agriculturally than you get out of it.

That is completely off topic. And I suspect the producing ethanol from petroleum would have the same problem. Ethanol is a crappy fuel in many aspects. We should not be mandating its use or using the tax code to give it preference over better fuels.