[Knitting A Conundrum]

The debate between Republicans and conservatives over Giuliani’s candidacy has been over the issue of his liberalism, with Republicans taking the position that it was merely expedient for his tenure as mayor of NYC, that he wasn’t really as liberal as conservatives were warning, that he was better than anyone the Democrats were offering; and conservatives saying he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, that he was philosophically and ideologically identical to the Democrats, and a threat to GOP values.

On Friday, Giuliani himself removed all doubt. In doing so, he has thrown down the gauntlet to the Republican Party: what value do you place on your principles?

This will shift the thrust of the debate away from a question of Giuliani’s position on core GOP values and toward the more important discussion that will determine the entire future of the GOP, which is: will the GOP completely abandon its principles and party planks to accommodate the candidacy of a self-professed liberal, and what will that mean for the tenability of the party as a viable political entity going into the future. -----

Worth repeating

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Thought you might find this interesting

[Eagles6]

save

[Lurker]

The debate between Republicans and conservatives over Giuliani’s candidacy has been is over.

Fixed that for ya.

L

[Enterprise]

Giuliani, or any other Republican who states support for abortion rights, gun control, and gay rights can go take a flying **** at the moon.

[Man50D]

The debate between Republicans and conservatives over Giuliani’s candidacy has been over the issue of his liberalism

Finally someone understands Conservatives are no longer part of the Republican party because the socialists have taken control. The only effective method to ensure core Conservative values are upheld is by forming a Conservative party.

[Man50D]

the more important discussion that will determine the entire future of the GOP, which is: will the GOP completely abandon its principles

This has already happened.

[Cicero]

What I’ve been saying. Putting Giuliani in the White House would not just change the Republican Party, it would DESTROY it. And with it, the conservative movement, probably for the next twenty years or more.

Our two major parties have gradually morphed over the years. The Democrat party used to be the party of the working poor, among them almost all Catholics. They were in a coalition with the Jim Crow Democrats of the South.

The Republican Party was the party of the WASP establishment and the country clubbers. Rich people, businessmen.

All of that has changed completely. The Country Club Republicans still contribute a lot of money to the Republican Party, and thereby get to call a lot of the shots despite their small numbers. But the majority of the people who belong to the establishment these days are Democrats. The old WASP establishment is dead, and a new Limousine Liberal establishment has taken its place, having seized all the levers of power in academia, the media, and the entertainment industry.

Without its new conservative base, and the 50% of Catholics who have abandoned the Democrat Party, and the large and growing Evangelical constituency, the Republican Party couldn’t get anyone elected anywhere, after the dust settled. They would be toast. Conservatives would go elsewhere, but it would take them decades of work to rebuild a working party on the national level. Meantime the Democrats would finish billy jeff’s work of depriving us of our freedom and our right to vote, through judicial appointments, stacking of the bureaucracies, complete control of the polls, and resurrection of dead Democrats and illegals to keep them in power.

So. That means that Rudy MUST be defeated in the primaries. And if that fails, he MUST be defeated in the elections, regardless of who it puts into the Whitehouse, including the Hildabeast. Yes, sometimes you have to swallow your doubts and pull the lever for whatever (R) you are offered. But not this time. The stakes involve the future of the party, the conservative movement, and the country.

[Reagan Man]

On Friday, Giuliani himself removed all doubt. In doing so, he has thrown down the gauntlet to the Republican Party: what value do you place on your principles?

As a conservative Republican, I will vote my principles, values, beliefs and convictions. I will not vote for someone out of the juvenile fear and intense paranoia that others may have for the alternative choice. In this case, Rooty versus Hillary is a choice between two liberals. And as we all know, no good conservative votes for a liberal candidate. A vote for Rooty is a vote for liberalism.

[trisham]

Let’s also contemplate the effect on the GOP. To nominate Giuliani would be to disavow the traditional Republican positions and planks on the very issues that define the GOP, and especially conservatism. These are key issues distinguishing the GOP from Democrats. That distinction would be completely erased with a Giuliani nomination.

Finally, as a practical matter of winning elections, Giuliani and the GOP will be able to expect absolutely no support from conservatives. The party will have consigned itself to minority status, as it can’t win without the conservatives. It will also have sacrificed its soul on the altar of expediency.

****************

What an article! Giuliani-supporters take notice!

[RightWhale]

What the candidates themselves say is probably important although it is still a long ways before voting time. What others say about the candidates at this time shouldn’t count for much. It’s too early and none of them have bothered to swing by here as yet. A campaign speech, the whole picture, in person, counts.

[pissant]

And for the life of me, I have no idea why folks keep clinging to the notion that Rusy is the only one who is qualified to fight the islamo nazis. He is actually uniquely unqualified.

[Inquisitive1]

...in the past he’s stated he would appoint constructionist judges. Even putting aside his own record of appointing very liberal municipal judges as mayor of NYC, how can anyone, in light of his stated position on these issues, believe for one New York Minute (how fitting!) that he’ll do anything of the kind? To do so would be to work against the very issues for which he just expressed his support.

There you have it folks.

[PerConPat]

Giuliani and his backers are not shocked at the response of Conservatives, like myself, to his candidacy. Their emphasis has been on determining the depth, width, and length of support available to Rudy from within the GOP’s ranks. If his GOP nomination should result, and I doubt that, they will of course be delighted. However, I sense that Rudy is angling toward another goal; and that would be putting his stamp onto the middle. The ambivalence that characterizes his campaign, IMHO, is more than mere miscalculation on Rudy’s part. He has no doubt been impressed with Lieberman’s approach. And I am watching for what could be the most fractured presidential campaign since 1860.

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

True Dat...

[Phsstpok]

I will not support Giuliani in the primaries and will actively work for others to be the GOP nominee instead of him.

If, for some reason, he is the nominee I will not only vote for him over any imaginable Democrat nominee but will actively work for him over the single issue of the fight against islamofascism.

And I will loudly condemn any conservative, under those circumstances, who fails to turn out to vote for him on November 4, 2008. We see what that approach got us last November.

[Lancey Howard]

Giuliani is a "Schwarzenegger Republican". It is bad enough that Arnold won in California, but it's easy enough to shake that off - - it's California after all. But for another candidate of that ilk to win nationally would be the beginning of the Republican Dark Ages. There absolutely will be a window flung wide open for an alternative party to get traction, but that alternative party would stand little chance of winning until the new, liberal Republican Party was completely eradicated. Rat operatives would make sure that there was an ongoing split for as long as possible. Rudy must not win.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

I respect those who are “pro-life” but it is not wise to be a ONE issue voter.

[NittanyLion]

Further, after this bombshell pronouncement, what can we expect from a Giuliani presidency? Obviously, no support for Second Amendment rights to private gun ownership. Giuliani will act on his already acknowledged support for taxpayer funding of abortions. But most important, in the past he’s stated he would appoint constructionist judges. Even putting aside his own record of appointing very liberal municipal judges as mayor of NYC, how can anyone, in light of his stated position on these issues, believe for one New York Minute (how fitting!) that he’ll do anything of the kind? To do so would be to work against the very issues for which he just expressed his support.

To FreeRepublic's credit, this site once again recognized the truth well in advance of many others, and has been trumpeting just this assertion for weeks/months. Then there are those of lesser political acumen (who are no longer posting on this site) that were slow to understand reality - and possibly never will.

[JoeSixPack1]

...with Republicans taking the position that it was merely expedient for his tenure as mayor of NYC,...

Early on I was one of those.

Was.

[Antoninus]

Let’s also contemplate the effect on the GOP. To nominate Giuliani would be to disavow the traditional Republican positions and planks on the very issues that define the GOP, and especially conservatism. These are key issues distinguishing the GOP from Democrats. That distinction would be completely erased with a Giuliani nomination.

Yep. And I'd be looking to sign up for the nearest available 3rd party that mirrored my views on social issues. And I'm not the only one.

Principles over party, baby.