This country forgot Vietnam and the reason we lost. We allowed a minority, and the media, to control it all. We allowed the degradation of our troops all for some convoluted peace crap. Now, we’re allowing the nonsense of supporting our troops but not their mission - and that can’t be separated - you support our troops and the mission or you don’t support our troops. Unless we fight, here in America, the media, the celebrities some idolize, hold our reps to the voters who got them the damn position/office, it will never change.
Well, here's the thing about the media and information that can get to the public, today, versus back then, in the late 60s and early 70s. It's not as controlled now. We have a lot better access to all sorts of information. So, people are capable of having the right information if they want it.
The deal about the degradation of the troops is simply a political move to start the withdrawal process, more than anything else. In other words, you try and force the issue through the money side of things. That's what Congress is all about anyway. They appropriate the money. So, yes the President can order the troops over there and fight a war, but if Congress refuses to spend the money for it, then the President is just sh*t out of luck on the matter. That's the nature of our system. Congress has always had the "purse strings" in its hands. So, the President can't pay for anything unless Congess agrees. And so, that's exactly what they're doing.
Americans are getting tired because they’re soft. We’re becoming soft. We can’t sacrifice, it’s too hard. We’re lazy. Mostly, we don’t protest like the dems, liberals, illegals. It’s very easy to turn this around, simply because what’s happening is evil, it’s unpatriotic, it’s basically telling our troops that we don’t support them and the tiny loss of life of American troops in Iraq is something we’ll keep pushing to justify our non support of the troops and the mission.
Well, for whatever the reason is that they're getting tired, it's just the fact that it's happening. And that's that. So, let's say that all of it is true. We can't sacrifice, it's too hard, we're lazy..., okay, then what do you have? You sure don't have any better chance at keeping the troops over there in Iraq to finish out the next decade of occupation, like we need to have in Iraq. You still get withdrawal, no matter what you want to call the American public.
Now, you said something that I'm not quite sure about, though. It's like you're saying that once the troops are over there, that we can't pull them out, or else we're betraying them. Well, I don't think that's the reason for keeping the troops over there in Iraq. The answer to that is, no, you can pull the troops out of there and not betray them. You simply make a policy decision, the troops do what they're supposed to do and "wrap it up" and that's that. End of story.There's no betrayal simply from the withdrawal itself.
No, the betrayal, is from the standpoint of not the troops (if you say, "Come home", that's not a betrayal to say that...) -- no, the betrayal is to the original goal and idea that we had for going over there in the first place. The troops are simply the extension of our policy. If we don't follow through with our policy, then that is the betrayal. It's a betrayal of the original policy and reason for being over there. The troops can come home or they can stay, and that is simply a policy matter. BUT to have the original policy betrayed is another matter. There are many different things involved in that policy and that would require a lot more typing to go into it. Suffice it to say that if the orders are given to the troops to "come home" that's no betrayal of the troops. I'm sure they would like to come home. It's simply a betrayal of our original reason for being there and our policy.
The libs think they won’t suffer the wrath of Islam. They have no spine, surrendering. It’s disgusting, disgraceful. When you fight a war, you fight to win, no matter what. No matter how barbaric that is. War isn’t pretty, it isn’t nicely packaged or on a timetable. I hate this intellectual elitist crap, this from someone with two Master degrees.
Well, first of all, I don't think this country can fight a war any more, not from the way it looks now. I mean, we can bomb some places, and send missiles and stuff. We can make a quick "in and out" like we did in the first Gulf War, as along as no one gets killed and stuff. But, as soon as things turn into a real war, "it's time to go home." That's what it looks like to me.
So, the only thing that is really going to work for the U.S., in terms of this war against the religio-fanatical-governmental idealogy of Islam, is for them to succeed in another major attack on the U.S. (perhaps with a nuclear weapon) and maybe that will keep us going for about ten years of warfare. Any longer war that is needed, we'll probably need another attack at home.
So what is your point? Do you think we, those who are patriotic and value our American lifestyle, should finally start fighting back? Or are you just pointing out how we’re going to lose in 2008, and I don’t see us losing in 2008 yet.
My basic point is that you are outnumbered in the political process -- that is, in the voting booth. And as a result, no matter what you are saying about the American public, true or not, isn't going to make a bit of difference. The handwriting is on the wall and the withdrawal is probably going to be started around the future election time.
Regards,
Star Traveler
I have to go to sleep. I’ll read and reply tomorrow or sometime this week.