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To: All
No answer to my post #331:

I do not embrace science as the most certain source of knowledge.

Why stop with divine revelation? When you reject science and the scientific method there are so many other sources of "knowledge" to choose from: magic, superstition, wishful thinking, old wives tales, folklore, what the stars foretell and what the neighbors think, omens, public opinion, astromancy, spells, aching bunions, Ouija boards, anecdotes, tarot cards, sorcery, seances, black cats, table tipping, witch doctors, crystals and crystal balls, numerology, palm reading, the unguessable verdict of history, tea leaves, hoodoo, voodoo, and all sorts of other weird stuff.

And if you reject science, just what method are you going to use to differentiate between these sources of "knowledge?"

And to make it worse, we can add two other important questions:

How do I know your divine revelation is worth anything? Jim Jones and David Koresh both claimed divine revelation and look where it got them. Sounds like a case of "my divine revelations are always true, but anyone else's divine revelations, if they contradict mine, must be false." (Nice work if you can get it.)

How does one objectively distinguish between a "genuine" revelation and an ordinary hallucination/mental illness? Charles Manson, for instance?

When you abandon rational thinking and objective, measurable reality in favor of "divine revelation," you also abandon any rational way of differentiating between multiple sources of "divine revelation." You are left with opinion and unsubstantiated belief.

And, you are far from science and the scientific method. As I noted above, when you abandon the scientific method and accept divine revelation as your highest authority, you have no business doing science, or even offering opinions on scientific matters.

372 posted on 06/10/2007 5:09:48 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

A most excellent post...I would add this...aside from the most horrid of those folks, as you mentioned, Jim Jones, and David Koresh, claiming to have special divine revelation, there are others not so odious who claim to have special divine revelation, which they claim has directed them to start another religion...

Didn’t Joseph Smith claim divine revelation, when he began the Mormon faith?...I would assume, that all those who started various Christian religions, also claimed that they received some sort of divine revelation...I am quite sure that the folks who began the Christian Science Religion, Jehovahs Witnesses, the 7th Day Adventists, and just about every other religion that calls its ‘Christian’ began, because its founder claimed that they had a ‘divine revelation’ to break with existing traditional religions, and start their own religon...even religions that do not consider themselves Christian, believe in divine revelation...does not the Moslem religion believe that they too, receive divine revelation...what about those of the Bahai Faith...what about all Native Americans who still practice their tradtional religion...I am sure that they believe in divine revelation as well..

Anyone can claim that they have received a ‘divine revelation’...I am sure millions of folks feel that this has happened to them...yet they all have differing conclusions as to what those divine revelations actually mean...

I am sure that they believe these revelations to be true and relevant to their own personal lives...but since these revelations are personal, and known only by the one claiming to have received them, they are irrelevant to anyone else, who may have their own divine relevation, which directly contradicts someone elses revelation..

Receiving a divine revelation is purely a subjective experience, one that cannot be shared by anyone else, nor for that matter proven to anyone else...

So ones experience of a divine relevation is relevant for them, relevant for their lives, relevant for the way they think and perceive things...but for the rest of us, someone elses ‘divine revelation’ is irrelevant...


373 posted on 06/10/2007 6:48:44 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Coyoteman
No answer to my post #331:

I replied in post #364. I agreed with the essence of your point and amplified it a bit, before replying.

Am I on your ignore list?

Of course, if I am, you won't see that question, either... ;-)

Cheers!

374 posted on 06/10/2007 7:09:09 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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