Intelligent Design Scientist Denied Tenure at Iowa State (what you can do to help!)

Me | May 16, 2005 | Me

[Elsie]

We are LOSING the culture war, the anti-American liberals now have full control over our public universities.

So... how do we get them OUT of 'control'?

(And you left out the lower schools - the 'farm teams' if you will.)

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

I am assuming nothing, but you seem to be.

I have yet to see a statement by Iowa State which indicates that Gonzalez’s belief in ID is the reason tenure was denied.

Getting published is not the sole criteria for tenure.

If you knew much about ISU football you would realize how funny the football jab was

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Being a member of the Discovery Institute will do that to you.

[HereInTheHeartland]

” I have yet to see a statement by Iowa State which indicates that Gonzalez’s belief in ID is the reason tenure was denied.”

Of course they won’t state that as a actual reason.
My canned response from John McCarroll mentioned the process that tenure candidates go through, etc.

They just want this blow over and get Gonzalez out of there. What they (ISU administration) don’t want is a lot of publicity, emails, etc.
And of course Geoffroy would have hell to pay from factions of the faculty at Iowa State if he supports Gonzalez.
The only way to keep Gonzalez is if Geoffroy has more pressure from the public than from the faculty.

[ElectricStrawberry]

When you stop patting yourself on your back, why don’t you take a look at his list of peer-reviewed articles and see what subject matter they’re encompassing.

ASTRO-PHYSICS.....not ID.

What does this have to do with ID and your asinine claim including me in what you’d call the “group of evos that would deny that someone that believed in ID can have peer-reviewed papers”?

Nothing....it’s a false claim...a strawman to say “A-HA!! Gotchya!!”...when you don’t.....you’ve got nothing but a reading comprehension problem.

I don’t deny that people who believe in ID can have peer-reviewed papers in ASTRO-PHYSICS...or even ID.....but I’d love to see a peer-reviewed paper concerning ID...in a reputable research journal....using the scientific method like I have to do with MY peer-reviewed research publications in reputable journals.

[js1138]

The only way to keep Gonzalez is if Geoffroy has more pressure from the public than from the faculty.

And a miracle happens.

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

For all I (or you) know, Gonzalez is a good researcher but a horrible teacher.

Gonzalez may be using this as a trump card to drum up political support by making claims of bias that have no basis in fact.

Not comparing the two philosophically, but Churchill is doing the same thing at Colorado. He is not a good teacher, but he hides behind the political safety of being an oppressed ‘native American’.

[HereInTheHeartland]

“For all I (or you) know, Gonzalez is a good researcher but a horrible teacher.
Gonzalez may be using this as a trump card to drum up political support by making claims of bias that have no basis in fact.”

I profess my ignorance, I have not heard him speak.

But I do know of Hector Avalos and things that he has been involved with.
Avalos is a bad egg and is on a mission. He used to be a Christian and then he embraced atheism and is on a mission to persecute any Christian.
I live close to Ames and know some people in the community he has opposed on.

For some reason, this issue really really bothers me.
Part of it is I may have a kid setting foot on that campus in a year, I know what a hostile environment that ISU (and probably most public universities) are for Christian students.
The professors see it as their mission to beat Christian beliefs out of new students.
I find that extremely repugnant.

[taxesareforever]

What a jokester. There won’t be any “peer-reviewed” articles in major scientific journals by IDers because they aren’t allowed. Just because they aren’t “peer-reviewed” by evo scientists does not make them illegit. In your thinking the Bible is illegit because it won’t pass “peer-review” by evo scientists. You can have your evo scientists and their “peer-reviewed” human logic, I’ll take God’s stamp of approval of the Bible.

[capt.P]

There is a point of subtlety here that seems to be totally swept under the rug. I personally blame the poor basic scientific education that 95% of all people have received. It is not a question of intelligence, as there are plenty of bright people on both sides of this fence.

Rather than go on, the only thing I accuse ID believers of is attempting to take shortcuts. It’s not a matter of right or wrong. I would suggest that 90+% of all believers in evolution believe in a Creator. Most of us have two belief systems, but can reconcile that God is too great to be reduced to a set of yes-no answers, which, in the end, is all science is. In effect, science isn’t great enough to be used to measure the nature of God, just as a ruler isn’t the right tool to be used to measure a parentss love for their children. By attempting to use that ruler, all we are doing is looking foolish, and doing hurt to both ourselves and the child.
Scientific thinking is 100% based on testing and disproving every possible answer EXCEPT ONE in the formation of a theory. When it is no longer possible to discover ways to disprove ones’ theory, that theory may become a ‘Law’ that is applied only in narrow circumstances.
We do a disservice to ourselves by NOT looking at every step in the process. By not counting and testing every number from one to the answer, we are not thinking using the scientific method.
Since we can’t test and analyze whether or not God exists while using the scientific method of thinking, we can’t claim to be using the scientific method when we say that we believe that God created all life.

Unfortunately, most people don’t get it. ID is to scientific thinking as Social Darwinism was to evolutionary theory... It’s not science, doesn’t use the scientific method of thinking, but it claims to be proven by scientific thought anyhow, because in this day and age, where people are so used to instant gratification, we want to have proof of our beliefs so badly, so that we can be 100% sure that what we see is what we get.

To me, ID is kind of a sad set of beliefs. So many people are now so afraid to have a little faith, that they will forsake the great beauty and grace of believing without proof, convincing themselves that we can prove the existence of the divine. Myself, I feel badly for them. I don’t need to see to believe, and I won’t pretend to see what is by nature unseeable.

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

Avalos obviously has an agenda and a burr up his behind. People like that often try to embellish their own importance by latching on to a decided issue and trying to make it look like their doing.

Sure, Gonzalez and Avalos may have butted heads in the past. But Avalos may be taking advantage of the situation so as to appear to his minions as if he has the power to control tenure. It’s ironic that this guy apparently teaches religious studies. Sort of like having someone from PETA head up the Ag department.

If the administration truly let this be a deciding factor, and if Gonzales was a good teacher who didn’t mix his personal philosophy with his teaching, then as an ISU grad I would be very disappointed and upset.

By American standards, Iowa State is a conservative campus.....by American standards. If you are worried about how your kid will be perceived, thank goodness they aren’t going to Iowa City.

[GodGunsGuts]

All excellent points. Any scientist (and I mean any scientist) who dares to posit a hypothesis or a theory that challenges the consensus of his peers literally runs the risk of his peers closing ranks and drumming him out of the profession. Same goes for peer review. How on earth do you get heterodox papers published when your competition are the ones sitting on the peer review committee? Talk about a conflict of interest!

[Elsie]

 I would suggest that 90+% of all believers in evolution believe in a Creator.

 

You may be right; just not the 'creator' that is illustrated in the Bible.

 

 

 

 

Most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says.

If, as they say, they 'believe' the words of Jesus and the New Testament writers,

they have to decide what the following verses mean:

Acts 17:26-27
26. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Romans 5:12-21
12. Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
13. for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16. Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
19. For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
21. so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If there were no one man, that means SIN did NOT enter the World thru him.

If Adam was NOT the one man, that means SPIRITUAL DEATH did not come thru him.

If SIN did NOT enter the World thru the one man, that means Jesus does not save from SIN.

Are we to believe that the one man is symbolic? Does that mean Jesus is symbolic as well?

The Theory of Evolution states that there WAS no one man, but a wide population that managed to inherit that last mutated gene that makes MEN different from APES.

Acts 17:24-26

24. "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
25. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
26. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

Was LUKE wrong about this?

 

1 Corinthians 11:8-9
8. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9. neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

1 Timothy 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Was Paul WRONG about these???

 

If so, is GOD so puny that He allows this 'inaccuracy' in His Word??

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And THIS verse is completely against E!!!

NIV Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

[Elsie]

Talk about a conflict of interest!

Ya think?? ;^)

There IS a Judge though, who does judge fairly.

[Elsie]

The consensus of the tenured department faculty, the department chair, the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, the dean of Liberal Arts and Sciences and the executive vice president and provost was that tenure should not be granted.

Was there ANYONE who said he SHOULD be tenured??