Army says Dragon Skin armor falls short

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070521/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/army_body_armor ^

[World_Events]

The U.S. Army, in a rare move Monday, released a barrage of test results showing that a privately-sold flexible body armor that some families have sought for their soldiers failed extensive military testing.

Pieces of the hefty Dragon Skin armor, with ragged holes torn through its yellow inner skin, were propped up on the floor in the Pentagon, as Army officials systematically detailed the battery of ammunition and temperature testing the armor failed.

Although the tests were done nearly a year ago, the Army declined to release details until Monday, after recent NBC News reports suggested that the Dragon Skin may be better than the Army-issued Interceptor armor.

As a result of the reports, some members of Congress have asked for an investigation into the matter, and others have asked the Army for more information.

"We take this personally," said Brig. Gen. Mark Brown, executive officer for the Army's armor testing program. "One third of the general officers in the United States Army have either a son or daughter either in theater (at war) today or (who) has been to theater."

Holding up an armor-piercing bullet, Brown showed video of the tests, including footage of officials peering into the bullet hole in the Dragon Skin armor. "At the end of the day, this one disc has to stop this round. It didn't. Thirteen times," he said.

In response, Murray Neal, president of Pinnacle Armor which produces Dragon Skin, suggested that the Army lied about some of the testing, and he questioned why the Army was counting shots that "were fired into the non-rifle defeating areas."

[BurbankKarl]

NBC faking news again....they never learn!

[lovecraft]

Didn’t I see this stuff on an episode of Future Weapons?

[BurbankKarl]

Brian Williams last night suggested the US Army needed to test Dragon Skin again, rather than admit NBC (once again) got the story wrong.

No wonder they lose audience week after week, year after year.

[liberty_lvr]

In response, Murray Neal, president of Pinnacle Armor which produces Dragon Skin, suggested that the Army lied about some of the testing, and he questioned why the Army was counting shots that "were fired into the non-rifle defeating areas."

Oh, that's rich...I hope the terrorists got Murray's memo about where it's OK to shoot at the armor and where to avoid. I'm sure Achmed is real concerned about exploiting this crap's weaknesses.

After all, that wouldn't be fair.

[ASH71]

Yes you did i believe though that is the newer version of it. It stopped many rounds of different types of ammo and a grenade.

[Yo-Yo]

Yup you did, and it performed very well. In addition, Dragon Skin is more flexible than the solid ceramic inserts currently used by the US Army, giving the soldier more mobility.

This is another “NIH” syndrome by the Army.

Gee, an armor piercing bullet that pierced armor. Who’da thunkit?

[ASH71]

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone2/weapon-zone-2.html
click Video then Season 2 tab and then Dragon Skin (like 14th down)

[cll]

Basic question:

What do SFOD-D, SF, & SEAL people think about this system? There lies the answer.

[Sleeping Beauty]

This isn’t over yet. Congress is investigating.

One compelling thing in the NBC story is that they interviewed the man who invented “Interceptor” — the armor that the US military currently uses.

He says that Dragon Skin is far better than the armor he invented.

[Oberon]

You think Interceptor is rifle-proof over 100 percent of its surface?

[lovecraft]

I remember the grenade bit. It looked very promising on that show, who to believe on this?

[ASH71]

Then again it is twice as heavy as the standard issue as well.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Guessing things like this turn out the same way they usually do.

One will be better at something that the other isn’t.

[Beckwith]

Didn’t I see this stuff on an episode of Future Weapons?

Yup -- and the demonstration of this armor placed on top of an exploding grenade was quite impressive.

As someone who has participated in many government bids, I can assure you that if the manufacturer was not one of the "inside contractors," their bid may have been rejected regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its product.

[taxcontrol]

I know, I know .... call in the mythbusters!

[Freeport]

Quite frankly, being in the Defense Biz; the lab. If they do a thumbs down, believe it.

The guy should take the results, analyze them, fix his vest and move on.

The concept is better. Fix the implementation and get the weight down. Twenty extra pounds is a big deal to 19 year old kids already humping 100+ pounds of equipment... You try it some time; it’s not fun at all.

[Yo-Yo]

Then again it is twice as heavy as the standard issue as well.

Where do you get that information? The information I have read says that the Dragon Skin vest is lighter than the equiliviant NIJ level Interceptor vest.

[Tailback]

Oh, that's rich...I hope the terrorists got Murray's memo about where it's OK to shoot at the armor and where to avoid. I'm sure Achmed is real concerned about exploiting this crap's weaknesses. After all, that wouldn't be fair.

Did the Army fire rounds into the interceptor where the ESAPI plates don't cover the soft armor? The ESAPI plates are the only part of interceptor that is level 4. The soft armor on interceptor is only 3A level. In other words the interceptor vest has non-rifle defeating areas and depending on the type of dragonskin panel used, the interceptor non-rifle deafeating area is much larger.

Both the interceptor and dragonskin have their good and bad points and it's unfortunate that the anti-war media is using this to discredit the war, the president, and the army.

[Yo-Yo]

I hope the terrorists got Murray's memo about where it's OK to shoot at the armor and where to avoid. I'm sure Achmed is real concerned about exploiting this crap's weaknesses.

From a posting on Defense Tech:

It's about time someone made some sense Staff Sgt.
I was an Infantryman and served in Iraq in 2004.
You bring up issues that I too went through. The rubbing isn't that bad for the first few weeks but after a few months I started breaking out and that led to the rash that you most likely encountered like me. I noticed if I had to take a shit and didn't want to take my vest off that it was almost impossible. Now that isn't a very good arguement but it was a problem more than once for me. I also had issues with the necesary tightness as I was told, it has to be tight so that the impact of a bullet doesn't have any room to cause worse trauma. I thought to myself, what the f**k? The other thing is that the insurgents have known about the weaknesses at least since I was there. I recall seeing a leaflett that was in a suspected Al Qaedah opperative's house (or compound I should say) the leaflett had a picture of the Interceptor vest and in red highlighting were areas of high fatality risks as our interpereter conveyed. It is time for a change in our armor and I have taken your advice sir and been spreading the word to whoever really cares to write their senators or anyone who will get this issue to congress.

Posted by: Mike Luchenbach at May 22, 2007 01:40 PM

Looks like Al Qaeda already knows the limitations of Interceptor Armor, too.