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To: stainlessbanner
More to STATES RIGHTS than meets the eye.

I renewed by driver license today.

The renew form asked me, "For voter registration purposes, are you a citizen of the United States?"

I checked yes as I was told to check one and the other was no, but you notice I was not given the opportunity or chance to choose State of Virginia?

Then on the other side, another question, "Are you a resident of Virginia?"

I checked yes, as I am residing in Virginia. A mere resident. But they are not interested in knowing if I am a citizen of the State of Virginia.

They took my picture and a short time later handed me my license. I looked along the top for State of Virginia or Commonwealth of Virginia.

"Virginia."

That was it. It was rather disappointing but I'm sure I am one in a million that notices things like this. Virginia.

Everywhere I've gone in the last two days I've noticed that every time I've seen the U.S. Flag and the Virginia flag flown together, the U.S. Flag is bigger and flown on the higher flagpole; where there are three poles, the U.S. Flag is on the center pole (highest) and the flag of Virginia on a shorter side pole.

I remember in public school, every day, the speaker would come on with morning announcements, and then someone would lead us in The Pledge Of Allegiance. We'd be asked to stand and face the flag an put our hands over our hearts. We did this for the U.S. flag but never for the State flag, which was sometimes around but never prominent.

Then one day I was watching the news, some piece came on about Islam and muslims and there was this crackly loud speaker pointed down from high on the minarette blaring "Alllllaaaa hu AK barrr...!" And the loud speaker in school came to mind. There was one in every class of every school. Then I saw the muslim faithful, rank and file, face mecca. And I thought of my class, rank and file, facing the U.S. flag, which was a little to the left by the blackboard so we would turn about 15 degrees to face it. And then I saw the muslims reciting something (..there is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet, yada, yada, yada), and I thought of us, the whole school, every school, in the U.S. reciting the pledge. The news show said they do this five times a day. We recited the pledge once. I'm not against instilling a sense of patriotism in the yutes but I notice we never question the things we are asked to do as kids. We were in Maryland at the time. Not once did we offer any allegiance to Maryland. It never occurred to us, and we were not asked.

The map of the United States of America was on the wall, these same words were in the pledge, and I thought it was this territory, its people, and their government(s)I was pledging allegiance to, as shown on the map from Washington (state) to Florida. I never gave Washington DC a thought.

I concieved of the U.S. as a collection of states and D.C., inclusive, not being a state as I was told, but part of the collection. And the U.S. flag for me represented the collection. I am guessing this is how most children see the situation and assume it to be. I've become the kind of guy who likes to read the fine print. We thought we were pledging our allegiance to the whole country, the Republic. Were we, indeed?

When the Constitution was written, the negotiations between the interests of the states (which really were states then with political strength) and the Federalists who wanted a new Constitution, including the negotiations to have a Bill of Rights limiting Federal legislative authority against the States (at the urging of George Mason, and later James Madison), neglected a small area gone unnoticed: the federal district. The district at that time had no representatives because it didn't exist yet. It had no citizens with rights to consider, no interests. And while legislative boundaries were being erected that state and federal would by law have to respect, the district was simply created and Congress was given "exclusive legislative jurisdiction" over it. It was separate from all the states and any state, and was not itself a state. It was not a container of states and the only authority it had over states was defined by the Constitution. It would not be a state but more like a city-state. Congress would dominate in this district. The first Executive Order would be written in 1789. Executive Orders are used by the President to exercise executive authority. The scope of his authority would necessarily be limited to federal employees and officers. He certainly wouldn't tell the people of the states what to do, and neither would Congress, except as proscribed by the Constitution. There could be a local municipal government of DC but it would be subordinate to Congress. There was always congressional oversight. No one ever asked if there might be citizens of DC the way there were citizens of every other state, and if it might be smart to give them a bill of rights. No one thought to ask if the powers of Congress should be limited in its own jurisdiction. No one said, ok, there will be a federal district, Congress will have jurisdiction there, but there will be these things, A, B, and C, that Congress cannot do. Have citizens is what should have been A. Charter Banks is what should have been B. But there was no A B and C and it seems that anything Congress could dream up for its jurisdiction, it could do. And it probably wasn't a huge problem at first.

Time passed and the 14th Amendment was enacted. Freed Africans who had no citizenship were made U.S., or federal citizens. Immigrants became U.S. or federal citizens as they were naturalized. My wife is one. They may have had a hybrid state/federal citizenship relationship but does anyone believe he is anything but a pure federal citizen today?

There have always been elements that try to promote "unconstitutional" things, like the establishment of National Banks like the one, the charter of which Andy Jackson did not renew. But the only thing making them unconstitutional was if they attempted to carry on business outside their jurisdiction, and in the borders of a State. Within DC, no one cared what Congress did. Congress could enact income taxes on federal employees, which it did, and U.S. (federal) citizens working outside the country, which it did, and form an IRS to administer them. Where I, and many did have a problem is when it taxes the income of State citizens. Supreme courts found income taxes unconstitutional, early on. But they were working on a way to make them constitutional. Congress could charter the Federal Reserve, issue commercial paper (debt), make it legal tender. In the states, gold and silver coin was to be the only legal tender. The right to keep and bear arms, doesn't exist in the federal area and its nobody's business, except congress. It is a federal area. The federal government could have an army, navy, which fought under a flag, the U.S. flag, the federal flag.

It flew wherever the federal government was in charge. It didn't fly where the federal government had no business being. Have you ever noticed that you don't see Maryland flags flying everywhere in Virginia, or Oregon flags flying everywhere in Vermont? Why is that? If in the 1800's a bunch of people from Georgia went into North Carolina and hoisted Georgia flags on a few flagpoles, it would have been seen as an act of aggression, there would have been a fight. If, as I said earlier, the federal government and its district would be separate from the states, not a container of states, with very limited authority over states, then why is the U.S. flag flown everywhere in every state in the superior position? It is not my intent to incite disrespect for our nation or the national flag, but to ask is it appropriate that it has taken over? We would ask that if there was a true civil war and Washington state took over Oregon. So why don't we ask that when the federal flag flies over every state in the superior position? Just sayin'.

As U.S. citizenship was accentuated and promoted, and state citizenship lost fashion, some people thought it would be "nice" to display the American flag as a show of solidarity especially during wartime. Other times it was showing up quite deliberately, as a show of authority. But by then it didn't matter because we were all U.S. citizens. When we all became U.S. citizens did we remember to renew or reassert our State citizenship? Being citizens of a real State is what guaranteed our individual rights, because that is where the Constitution fit in. No fundamental rights were guaranteed to federal citizens at the ratification of the Constitution because no such creature as a federal citizen was yet contemplated. The federal government is a city-state, being a citizen of that may provide some benefits but what are they? What rights does a federal citizen have that cannot be taken away by fiat? As a federal citizen are there any unalienable rights? How would anyone know? How could we prove it?

Are there even any de jure State citizens left? And if there is none left, what of the state? Can there even be a state if all its "residents" are too busy swearing allegiance to maintain their federal citizenship? As on my driver's licence: Virginia, whatever that means. Is there any reason to think that DC, a putative 63 square mile federal district is limited to that space any longer when millions of schoolchildren pledge allegiance not to their state but to the United States? On the geographic map it looks like a small diamond, but on the political map, from Washington State to Florida, it should just read "Washington D.C."

Now we get to today. The federal government has long since confiscated personal property, gold (1933) and advanced to allowing real property confiscation (kelo v. new london). Katrina---Officers move in and confiscate firearms. They punch an old woman in the face and knock her down to get her derringer away from her. They shove the muzzles of fully automatic weapons in the faces of citizens and treat them like criminals. They confiscate all manner of long guns and pistols. All of a sudden people start wondering about their 2nd Amendment rights. They still don't understand. Just like deer in the headlights.

There will be federal laws mandating the HPV vaccination to young girls, where are the rights? Where is the limit on federal authority? Illegals are flooding the nation, defending the borders is a federal responsibility (everyone says), what borders? What states? Where are the state citizens? They have all long since died off and been replaced by those who have pledged their allegiance to the "United States" which is admitted to have 3 distinct meanings. but generally means federal citizen.

Thankfully, there are people who in their private thoughts consider themselves citizen of their state first. But to the federal government, their private thoughts don't count for much. What counts are the boxes they check, the taxes they pay, the federal benefits they receive, the forms they sign. Still, they are the best patriots. Some of them are saying "The South will rise again." I hope those same people would not have slavery be part of the risen South. I'd hope the Northern states could rise again and become real de-jure states. But people would have to actually become state citizens again for that to happen. I'd like to see the federal government put in its place, constitutionally. Then we might be able to say goodbye to the socialist welfare state, which is fine for DC because it was created with no limits on what congress could do there. I'm getting to the point that though I understand there has to be some relationship between the de-jure state citizen and the federal government, I'm not sure FEDERAL CITIZENSHIP is the right way to go; because, honestly, I can't count on it that federal citizenship guarantees me any fundamental rights. And I feel I owe more allegiance to my State than I have been giving. The allegiance I have felt for the United States was more properly owed to Maryland (when I lived there), and Virginia (where I live now), with some spare allegiance left over for the United States should I need to serve in the Armed Services. Maryland and Virginia should never have gotten to the point when they stopped asking for the allegiance of its citizens as sovereign states. It was never appropriate for the federal government to offer subscriptions to citizenship of its own and demand total allegiance at the expense of the sovereign states. It was unfortunate the American people were lulled en masse into United States citizenship but that is what happens when you don't pay attention.

And it is unfortunate now that we strain under a tidal wave of illegal immigration, a congress which rules like dictators, can deny we have a right to self defense, to deny the democratic rule of the people in a constitutional republic. All those illegals being offered amnesty, that will lead to citizenship-----federal citizenship----increasing the power and scope of Congress, exclusive legislative jurisdiction, not a state, nor dependent on any state. Even if every patriot arranged his affairs to transfer his allegiance by affidavait to his State, and swore an oath of allegiance before a state judge, if he could find a courtroom without the U.S. flag and only the State Flag, and was able to restart a de-jure state in this manner that is not subordinate to and dependent on the federal government, there'd be so many new arrivals and natives who wouldn't cooperate that the federal government would have dominance by sheer numbers. Those who refused to be only state citizens could be deported, but to where? DC? There's not enough space there to hold them all.

I pledge allegiance, To the flag, Of the sovereign State of Virginia. And to the Commonwealth, For which it stands, a Republic, Liberty, Justice, and Freedom, for her citizens.

Cheesy? That is what we should be saying every morning in Virgina schools. IMHO.

As an aside, when the North American Union gains steam...expect there to be a flag, and expect it to fly in the superior position---everywhere; and be in every courtroom. And a new currency called the Amero. And expect to have no rights. But expect to be a citizen of it. Expect to see check-boxes on forms asking "For voter registration purposes, are you a citizen of the North American Union? [ ] yes [ ] no" And, "For voter registration purposes, are you a resident of the United States? [ ] yes [ ] no." Expect "officers" probably foreign, to enforce the "laws" of the Union with force like we've never seen. Expect there to be a pledge of allegiance, to the North American Union, and a National Anthem.

659 posted on 05/24/2007 9:47:17 PM PDT by Jason_b (Caution: U.S. citizenship could cause serfdom and may be harmful to your liberties.)
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To: Jason_b

Chilling.


670 posted on 05/24/2007 10:01:33 PM PDT by beckysueb
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To: Jason_b
You have bought into some really wild theories there.

What's at issue is the idea that somehow we are free as citizens of a state and unfree as citizens of our country.

There doesn't seem to be much real-life warrant for such an assumption.

Many would legitimately argue that the checks and balances written into the Constitution give us more rights as US citizens than we would ever have as citizens of a state.

But some people are always looking for some perfect utopia and they find it, or put it, somewhere in the past.

It's that longing and not the historical facts that matter for them.

But anyway, if there were no citizens of the United States and you got into trouble overseas, you could have to wait a long time as Virginia, Maryland, and any other states you've lived in tried to figure out (or avoid figuring out) who had responsibility for you.

765 posted on 05/25/2007 10:34:29 AM PDT by x
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To: Jason_b

Your #659.........Good post!


788 posted on 05/25/2007 9:32:14 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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