NYT: Elite Colleges Open New Door to Low-Income Youths

The New York Times ^ | 5/28/2007 | Sarah Rimer

[Old North State]

He switched his major from medicine to “religion and gender studies”, pretty thin gruel for one so extravagantly praised.

[ContraryMary]

Mr. Jack’s high grades and test scores — a respectable 1200 on the SAT — won him a full scholarship to the University of Florida. But the median score for his Amherst class was 1422, and he would have been excluded had the admissions office not considered his socioeconomic class, and the obstacles he had overcome.

“Tony Jack with his pure intelligence — had he been raised in Greenwich, he would have been a 1500 kid,” said Tom Parker, the dean of admission.

No way. My daughter did extremely well on her SAT's. No coaching; no classes. We did buy her a $29 computer program that was supposed to have practice tests on it. I think she used it a few times.

Coaching will help a bit. But no amount of tutoring is going to make up for what Junior lacks in aptitude. And aptitude does not discriminate on the basis of socioeconomics. If you're bright, you're bright -- regardless of how much money your parents make.

[DennisR]

So if I am middle class I would not be able to get into Amherst, right?

[VeritatisSplendor]

It’s good this young man was given a chance - I have no quarrel with that. He probably would be successful in life if he’d gone to U. of Florida too. But universities and prep schools have been recruiting talented black students for a long time - this is not new. I was thinking this article was going to be about universities finally recruiting students from poor families and mediocre schools and offering scholarships regardless of race - and it isn’t.

The daughter of my pscyhology professor is getting a full scholarship to a prep school that costs 20K a year - and the professor is going to be a practising clinical psychologist in a matter of months - big bucks - her husband is employed too. The family is black - the little girl is not a star athlete - and the prep schools don’t recruit disadvantaged white kids and give them scholarships. They recruit visible diversity.

Mrs VS

[Cowboy Bob]

Concerned that the barriers to elite institutions are being increasingly drawn along class lines, and wanting to maintain some role as engines of social mobility, about two dozen schools...

Silly me! I always thought that the roll of Colleges was to Educate, not to perform Social Engineering.

And people wonder why the US is falling behind the rest of the world in competitiveness.

[jamese777]

“The dumbing down of America continues.
It appears obvious that greedy politicians and the corporate elite want to drag America down to third world status.”

The schools mentioned in the article are private colleges.
Harvard’s endowment is so large that they can afford to cover the costs of every student that they admit who is low income. Any student admitted from a family earning $40,000 a year or less goes to Harvard for free and any student admitted from a family earning $40,000-$60,000 gets reduced tuition and room & board.

[neocon1984]

“Actually a 1200 is ... nearly 2 full standard deviations above the mean. “

By your interpretation of the stats, a 1200 is at or about the 98th percentile. That’s not even close.

I do not object to using economic disadvantage in the admissions equation. However, to equate a 1200 from a low SES kid to a 1500 from a high SES kid seems arbitrary. I prefer an empirically-based approach. For example, what do the data have to say about SAT scores, SES and college performance? After all, the point is to predict college performance. If not, it is faulty social engineering.

Quite some time ago, DePaul U. refused me admittance to a graduate program, but admitted a minority student I knew. His GRE scores were under 1000; mine were above 1400. His GPA was about 2.5; mine was about 3.8. He flunked out. I earned a doctorate from a better university. Does that sound like failed social engineering? BTW, I come from a blue-collar family.

[Fairview]

Here we are as parents convincing our kids to do well in high school so it will look good for them applying to the better colleges and here they go handing out free bee’s to all who have not done well at all, not because their low income because they just didn’t want to go to school!

Did you bother reading the article or any part of it at all? This is not a kid who has "not done well at all," he has done spectacularly well in difficult courses like organic chemistry and calculus, and has a very high score on his SAT.

So what does this tell our kids? What does it tell us as parent’s?

It tells your kids two things: first, if they want to get into Amherst they'd better take chemistry and calculus, and second, that when they write their application essays they should take care not to use apostrophes the way their father does. ;-)

Just like our representatives in Congress are ignoring us the higher education elitist are ignoring our kids. Question: did any of us receive any help financially or otherwise? no!

I don't know what you're talking about. If you didn't receive any help to go to college, why on earth not? There are many federal and state financial aid programs available for students of all economic backgrounds. I got scholarships, loans, grants, and work-study assistance when I wanted to go to college and now my child is getting the same, even though we're not poor. If your child wants to go to college, even if he's not a 4.0 student, there are plenty of opportunities, and no excuses possible.

Are we as mad as hell? yes! They are not playing fair and neither should we!

In what way, exactly, are you proposing that we should "not play fair"?

[SuziQ]

Frankly this is better than going by race alone. There are too many upper and middle class black kids getting special treatment, but who grew up with decent schools, and should be judged the same as all the other kids in those types of schools..

Sometimes bright kids ARE constrained by the schools in which they were placed. Given the opportunity, they might do very well. Of course, they might bomb too, but that's the chance they take. This would have to involve series screening of applicants. Many times, kids from low income areas just won't fit in because no matter how 'welcome' the school tries to make them feel, they'll just never fit in.

Instead of trying to push them into the elite schools, they might do better at a second tier college, where they can be challenged, but the social atmosphere might not be so hard on them. Instead of enduring a year of being a social outcast at an elite school, then dropping out thinking they've failed, starting out at a second tier school could give them a chance to prove themselves while not having to feel like they have to try to keep up socially with far wealthier schoolmates.

[SoftballMominVA]

The standard deviation for the SAT is 113 points, therefore a 1200 would be close to 2 standard deviations above the mean and and would be around the 87% percentile, not the 98%. To score in the 98% one would need to be in the 1500's. People normally assume the SD is 100, but according to the college board, it's 113, but of course folks will round that down to 100.

As far as equating SAT's to success? nope, can't be done although any number of folks in the SAT prep business will say differently.

1400 GRE's? very nice! Looks like DePaul backed the wrong horse.

[SuziQ]

here they go handing out free bee’s to all who have not done well at all, not because their low income because they just didn’t want to go to school!

I don't think that's what the article is saying at all. The schools seem to be looking for kids who worked hard, and given the constraints of the schools they attended, still did well on the SAT.

[ClaireSolt]

Interesting you should say that. I remember advising one brilliant vet that the HBUC we were in wasn't good enough for him and helping him get admitted to Amhearst. He's now a PhD.

However, I see no virtue in discriminating against the children of the rich or favoring those of the poor.

[Cicero]

I’m afraid it’s nothing but affirmative action on steroids, masquerading as something else.

I went to Harvard, and my father went to Harvard, but there’s no way in hell any of my kids can ever go to Harvard, because they aren’t Indian or black.

Two of my daughters were National Merit Scholars. They were admitted by some good schools they applied to, but were offered zero scholarships by those schools, because they are not certified minorities, so they were unable to accept. That will not change.

The ONLY school we have applied to that offered scholarships based on merit was the University of New Hampshire. Don’t ask me why, but they actually seem to want to have bright kids go there. That is no longer true of the scholarship systems at Harvard, Princeton, or Yale.

When I read the opening of the article, I said to myself, “Tony Jack is black.” Sure enough, there’s his picture at the link. Utterly predictable. The only thing that changes is the story line. Which is nothing against him. Maybe he’s much smarter than his SATs indicate. But there’s no doubt what got him admitted.

[SuziQ]

As far as equating SAT's to success? nope, can't be done although any number of folks in the SAT prep business will say differently.

*snort* Ain't THAT the truth! A friend of mine from high school was a National Merit Finalist, very high SAT, got into a nice private college, and proceeded to flunk out his first semester. By that point, he was tired of working so hard, and just wanted to play.

[SoftballMominVA]

Discrimination happens all the time whether we like it or not and in ways so subtle, it's almost hard to call it discrimination.

In NoVa there is a school called Thomas Jefferson Science and Technology High School. Kids at TJ represent the absolute top notch group of students in the NoVa area (not to say that other smart kids don't attend other schools, but the largest group go here). Apparently MIT says they will admit 2 a year from TJ, even though they know this is the most qualified pool of candidates in this area. There is definite implication that these kids are being discriminated against because of where they attend high school.

Fair? Nope, but the world isn't known as being fair. Kids are better off being a star at a small school and then applying rather than going to the best high school in the area for science and technology.

Do I agree with the policy - it doesn't matter. I'm not in charge of admittance to MIT, nor does MIT care what I think.

[SoftballMominVA]

A son of an acquaintance (no way would I call her friend) attended UVA last fall. I've heard for YEARS how brilliant her son was, how many AP's he took, his 1500 SAT, his 32 ACT, whatever. He was one of the rare kids that actually got a partial merit scholarship to UVA. He was home by Christmas with straight F's. He stopped going to class in October and instead worked on his World of Warcraft character.

According to the grapevine, he managed to get an elf to a low 30 which is a pretty good feat in and of itself, but going to class? nah. He works at the local grocery store now.

[SoftballMominVA]

We are seeing the same thing with my high school junior. The schools willing to hand out money are the private schools. Thankfully, she wants to go to a small private school so that will work out. But had she wanted to go to an Ivy? same thing - no money for whites.

[AndyJackson]

He would have been tutored by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

Well, instead the kid got a real education. That there are prepschools for the SATs tell you how low American elite education has sunk. This is not about kids who can think for themsleves. Actually, I think he would have been better off at UF. They actually care about their students, and my view of the eduction and product of "elite" schools has really taken a tumble because of this complete idiocy.

How do you get real quality when you outsource your admissions to a bunch of idiots (ever tried talking to the folks at ETS) instead of doing your own work, you get what you earn.

[Trailerpark Badass]

There's no data that I know of that says poor kids are more honest than rich.

The only data I care about is that I'm far more likely to be assaulted/murdered/carjacked in the "socio-economically disadvantaged" neighborhoods than I am in the wealthy neighborhoods.

I'll let the envious egalitarians ponder on the reasons for that.

[Mike Darancette]

The sad thing is a needy kid will go to a place like Harvard and will have to watch the trust fund kids enjoy the college experience while he will have to work two jobs to meet normal non-covered expenses.