Posted on 05/29/2007 5:20:13 AM PDT by leadpenny
What do I not get?
Why is the Iraqi border between Iran and the one with syria not sealed? I am not trying to be sarcastic. I don ‘t understand this militarily. I realize just going into Iran would not be possible yet...but the borders?
How can we ever move ahead if the security and army is so infiltrated by insurgents?
Guess sometimes I just get down about all this...maybe it was better in WWII where we didn’t know so much till it was all over.
‘...and we all know just how serious Britain is about recovering hostages. They might just engage in some pointed discussion, or request a high-level meeting to negotiate.
You really don’t want to make them angry.’
Remind me again what the US did when their soldiers were taken recently? Did you nuke Tehran? Sink the Iranian Navy? Assasinate Ahmanutjob?
Oh no, you did exactly what we did. Nothing.
About 200 foreigners of many different nationalities have been kidnapped in Iraq over the past four years, though the number has fallen dramatically since a few years ago.
The Brits just ignored Iran taking their people from Iraqi water, last month.
That was a 'green light' for more of the same, methinks.
Oh no, you did exactly what we did. Nothing.
I think we're working up to it. We have three carrier groups and significant manpower in the area.
But, yes, I do wish our government was more severe as well, in its treatment of clear acts of war.
Au contraire, it goes to show that they can do as they please, anywhere and any time!
If this is "working," I'd hate to see what "not working" is.
Same link. Update:
Last Updated: Tuesday, 29 May 2007, 16:39 GMT 17:39 UK
Witnesses said police units sealed off the street outside the ministry
Five Britons have been kidnapped from Iraq’s finance ministry in Baghdad, the British government has confirmed.
They included four bodyguards and a finance expert. Earlier reports said the expert was German.
Witnesses and sources told the BBC that the kidnappers wore police uniforms and arrived in up to 40 police vehicles.
The British foreign office said it was “in urgent contact with Iraqi authorities to establish facts and to try to secure a swift resolution”.
The British government convened an emergency meeting of its Cobra crisis management committee on Tuesday afternoon.
Also on Tuesday, Baghdad was shaken by a bus explosion which killed at least 23 people and injured about 55, and a car bomb which killed at least 17 people, hurt at least 36 and destroyed a Shia mosque.
The US military also announced that 10 of its soldiers were killed in Iraq on Monday, including two in a helicopter crash.
At least 114 US troops have been killed so far in May, making it the deadliest month for American forces in two-and-a-half years.
Renegade police?
There are conflicting reports about exactly how Tuesday’s abduction took place and how many people are missing.
‘Hired guns’ in Iraq
Witnesses said it was carried out by what appeared to be a police unit.
The street was sealed off at both ends and the kidnappers, in police camouflage uniforms, walked straight past guards at the finance ministry building on Palestine Street, the witnesses said.
A police source told the BBC that dozens of police vehicles were used in the operation.
The BBC’s Paul Wood in Baghdad says that if such reports are true, it could point to the involvement of a renegade police unit, possibly special commandoes.
While it has been possible in the past for criminals or militants to hire police uniforms and vehicles, he says, the scale of this operation suggests real police involvement.
It is well known that the Iraqi police are heavily infiltrated by militia groups, leading to split loyalties and corruption, our correspondent says.
Fewer kidnappings
The missing security guards are all believed to have been working for the GardaWorld security agency - a Canadian-owned firm largely staffed by British former service personnel.
GardaWorld is one of the biggest suppliers of private security in Iraq, and is thought to have hundreds of staff in the country.
Iraqi police are heavily infiltrated by militias
It was not clear what job GardaWorld’s client was doing in Baghdad.
The BBC’s security correspondent, Frank Gardner, says a British crisis team, including police hostage negotiators, members of the secret intelligence service, and regional experts, is being assembled to establish lines of communication with the kidnappers.
About 200 foreigners of many different nationalities have been kidnapped in Iraq over the past four years, though the number has fallen dramatically since a few years ago.
This is thought to be the first time an abduction has been staged at a government facility.
Correspondents say hopes for the captives’ future depends on who is holding them.
The Sunni al-Qaeda has a record of killing captives, while if it is a Shia group, there may be scope for political negotiation, our correspondent in Baghdad says.
If it is a criminal group, then GardaWorld can expect a ransom demand, he says. The British government itself has a declared position of not paying ransoms.
I see the defeatists are out in full force today.
I see realists.
Is this a war or a bank robbery gone horribly wrong? Well if this is a war, it sure isn't being fought like one. I'd say it's more like an occupation in enemy territory with our soldiers (and coalition forces) improperly used as police officers.
Well! I never!
I thought I was civilized...
Thanks for the ping, ASA Vet. ;-)
It's not far from the Green Zone, but it's in a different district.
Where’s Jimmy Carter?
The Iraqis are not only learning democracy, it seems, but cutthroat capitalism. As a bonus, we're getting schooled in the art of patronage.
The Brits don't have to pay the ransom for the kidnappers to make money. Some other third party will helpfully hand the police several million dollars, to resolve the issue without bloodshed. Out of concern for the hostages, you see. And, for the chance to funnel some money where you want it to go, but can't normally send. This kabuki dance of we-won't-negotiate-with-terrorists-but-someone-may-on-our-behalf allows certain parties to sound tough, while not getting in the way of business.
And this is business. Our friends in Iran may pay off the (Shia) Iraqi police for the kidnap victims' safe return. That patronage will buys Iran loyalty from the new powers-that-be in Iraq. Britain will be further persuaded to get out of Iraq, which will leave America further isolated. Lather, rinse, repeat.
That's an insult to the service personnel doing their damndest to find them.
In other violence, gunmen in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, set up fake checkpoints on the outskirts of the city and abducted more than 40 people, most of them soldiers, police officers and members of two tribes that had banded together against local insurgents, according to a police official in the city. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared retribution.
Well I’ll say it. I guess in the eyes of the Islamists it doesn’t matter if you fight the US in the UN when it came time to support the invasion of Iraq. If our problems there are because of our foreign policy, what caused them to take the Germans. Oh...sooory.
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