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Scotland: Cardinal says abortion is worse than Dunblane (refers to 1996 massacre of 16 children)
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | May 31, 2007 | Kate Devlin

Posted on 05/31/2007 1:05:08 PM PDT by Stoat

Cardinal says abortion is worse than Dunblane


By Kate Devlin, Scottish Political Correspondent
 
Last Updated: 6:54pm BST 31/05/2007
 

 

The leader of Scotland's Catholics compared the abortion rate to "two Dunblane massacres a day" today as he warned politicians who support terminations they would be barred from taking communion.

 
Cardinal Keith O'Brien is urging a Communion ban over adoption
Cardinal Keith O'Brien's sermon marks the anniversary of the 1967 Abortion Act

Cardinal Keith O'Brien used a sermon to mark the 40th anniversary of the Abortion Act to fiercely criticise Catholic MPs who disagree with the church's stance on the issue.

In a strongly worded attack he also called on Catholic voters to reject politicians who did not fight to overturn abortion laws.

During a sermon at St Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh, Cardinal O'Brien said Catholic politicians should stop co-operating with an "unspeakable crime" and warned of "the barrier such co-operation erects to receiving Holy Communion".

After the service the Cardinal, who last year met Tony Blair to press for a reconsideration of the current laws, said that the number of abortions north of the border was the equivalent of "two Dunblane massacres a day".

His comments provoked a furious response from politicians who accused the Cardinal of trying to disrupt the democratic process.

Jim Devine, the Labour MP for Livingston, said that the Cardinal's comments were an "affront to democracy".

He said: "He has the right to comment on these issues but to be telling practising Catholics that if they disagree with the church on abortion then they can't receive communion is an affront to democracy.

He added: "Abortion is not the issue. This could be about nuclear weapons or Iraq or anything where the Catholic church has a view. To tell practising Catholics how to vote is unacceptable."

His "emotive" language was unhelpful, he added.

Jeremy Purvis, a Liberal Democrat member of the Scottish Parliament, said it was "very unfortunate" that the Cardinal had chosen to use "extreme and provocative language" and a "hectoring and bullying tone against MSPs and MPs who every day balance their own consciences against what they think are the best interests of their constituents."

But other politicians said the Cardinal's comments on communion were just a restatement of church policy.

Michael McMahon, a Labour MSP, said: "The Pope made this announcement when he visited Brazil some months ago, and all the Cardinal is doing is reiterating the position of the Catholic Church."

A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland said that the Cardinal was placing the "moral" decision on whether to take communion on the individual. But he added: "It is certainly a warning not to turn up for the Eucharist."

The row comes days after figures showed that the number of abortions carried out in Scotland is continuing to rise, with more than 13,000 terminations being carried out a year.

The Catholic Church has a significant sway on voters in the west of Scotland, where much of Labour's stronghold is based north of the border.

Earlier this year the Prime Minister announced that Catholic adoption agencies would be given extra time to comply with new equality legislation which requires them to offer their services to gay couples.

This evening the Scottish Executive refused to comment on the Cardinal's remarks and said that the Abortion Act was reserved to Westminster.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionismurder; catholic; catholicism; catholics; dunblane; religion; scotland; uk; unitedkingdom
Background on the Dunblane school massacre:

Dunblane Massacre 1990-1999 Guardian Century

"Gunman mows down class of children leaving 16 dead with their teacher "

**************************************************************

From the posted article:

"To tell practising Catholics how to vote is unacceptable."

What a breathtakingly Fascistic statement, and of course it's being couched in the language of "protecting Democracy".

I suppose it's only acceptable for Socialist politicians to tell Catholics how to vote?

Thank God that Scotland has Cardinal O'Brien working on behalf of the unborn, and may his strength and conviction never waver.

1 posted on 05/31/2007 1:05:12 PM PDT by Stoat
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480
Catholic Ping   :-)

 




 

 

2 posted on 05/31/2007 1:05:49 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat
Whoah.

Stern truths from a European cardinal.

I'm impressed.

3 posted on 05/31/2007 1:08:11 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: cpforlife.org; MHGinTN

Ping :-)


4 posted on 05/31/2007 1:09:43 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: wideawake
Whoah.

Stern truths from a European cardinal.

I'm impressed.

Indeed....Cardinal O'Brien's words are a breath of fresh air.

5 posted on 05/31/2007 1:11:24 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

We a hearing this message more and more. Hopefully the more public pronouncements like this will give courage to more of them to step forward and tell it like it is.


6 posted on 05/31/2007 1:13:05 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (When toilet paper is a luxury, you have achieved communism.)
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To: Stoat

It would seem that people who do the wrong thing hate anyone who reminds them that what they are doing is wrong....


7 posted on 05/31/2007 1:13:06 PM PDT by padre35 (GWB choose Amnesty as his hill to die on, not Social Security reform.....that speaks much)
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To: Stoat

‘Bout time someone in the Church said that they ought to enforce their own rules.

Teddy Kennedy and other “Catholics” should never receive communion again.


8 posted on 05/31/2007 1:13:57 PM PDT by kjo
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To: Stoat

That has to be one of the bravest statements I’ve heard in a long while. He should be careful, if a muslim doesn’t get him then I’m sure some leftist will make the attempt.

If only more people had the balls (pardon the expression father) to make these kinds of statements our world would be a much better place.


9 posted on 05/31/2007 1:14:00 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Stoat
The Cardinal's exactly correct!

Unfortunately, few realize that we commit another 9/11 almost every day in the killing centers around this country.

We all need to be far more active in supporting people like this church leader, and in condemning those who advocate baby killing.

10 posted on 05/31/2007 1:14:18 PM PDT by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: Stoat
O'Brien has been a very pleasant surprise in a lot of ways.

His elevation was kind of shocking because he had a reputation as a lib.

11 posted on 05/31/2007 1:15:20 PM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose" -- Mitt Romney, April 2002)
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To: Stoat
He added: "Abortion is not the issue. This could be about nuclear weapons or Iraq or anything where the Catholic church has a view. To tell practising Catholics how to vote is unacceptable."

Red herring #1: it's not about nuclear weapons or Iraq or anything else. It is precisely about abortion.

Red herring #2: The idea that churches or representatives thereof have no right to express opinions about political issues of the day.

It's almost certain the guy is lying when he says abortion is "not the issue." Of course it's the issue -- one suspects he would be very pleased, for example, if the Catholic church came out against nuclear weapons or the Iraq war.

12 posted on 05/31/2007 1:19:16 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Stoat

Dear Pope,
I respectfully request that Cardinal O’Brien be transferred to the USA and that he serve in Washington DC or NYC so that he can be on the front lines in the war on abortion.


13 posted on 05/31/2007 1:20:42 PM PDT by KenmcG414
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To: Stoat; Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ..

Please Freepmail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

14 posted on 05/31/2007 1:21:04 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: All
To All:

The Cardinal's sermon ended up being stronger than what was originally planned.  This article from yesterday suggests that the sermon's strongest language was intended to be that the Abortion Act was a "pack of lies"

1967 Abortion Act a 'Pack of Lies' claims Scottish Cardinal

1967 Abortion Act a 'Pack of Lies' claims Scottish Cardinal

In a strongly worded sermon to be delivered this Thursday afternoon at St Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh, Cardinal Keith O'Brien will say that the claims and assurances made at the time of the passing of the 1967 Abortion Act were no more than a "pack of lies".

 
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 9:23 (BST)
 

In a strongly worded sermon to be delivered this Thursday afternoon at St Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh, Cardinal Keith O'Brien will say that the claims and assurances made at the time of the passing of the 1967 Abortion Act were no more than a "pack of lies".

He will add that the assurances amounted to "lies and misinformation masquerading as compassion and truth".

Cardinal O'Brien's words come as the 40th anniversary of the act approaches and are timed to coincide with the Catholic Church's "Day for Life" on 31 May, running this year under the theme "Blessed is the fruit of your womb".

The Scottish Day for Life falls on The Feast of the Visitation which marks the journey by Mary who went to visit her cousin Elizabeth at the same time she was expecting a child. At their meeting, John the Baptist, the child in Elizabeth's womb leapt for joy, and Elizabeth cried out: "Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb."

The day will be marked in Scotland's 500 Catholic parishes who have been sent 250,000 leaflets expanding on the theme and explaining the church's opposition to abortion and providing details of alternatives.

In a letter which accompanies the material sent to parishes, Archbishop Mario Conti urged every parish in Scotland to "take the opportunity to remind people that it is 40 years since the Abortion Act was passed into law". He added that people should be encouraged to "pray for legislation to protect the unborn child from the moment of conception".

In his sermon on Thursday, Cardinal O'Brien will also call on Catholic politicians to avoid "cooperating in the unspeakable crime of abortion", reminding them of "the barrier such cooperation erects to receiving Holy Communion".


15 posted on 05/31/2007 1:22:05 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat
Jim Devine, the Labour MP for Livingston, said that the Cardinal's comments were an "affront to democracy".

This is precisely the lying line taken by the Gang of 18 apostates in the USA.

Is the Cardinal not a citizen? Is he not entitled to his opinions? Does he not possess freedom of speech? Is it contrary to the nature or purpose of a parliamentary democracy for a constituent to publicly express his views?

16 posted on 05/31/2007 1:26:21 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Stoat

{Jim Devine, the Labour MP for Livingston, said that the Cardinal’s comments were an “affront to democracy”.}

Funny, liberals have no problem when religious folks combat global warming and poverty.


17 posted on 05/31/2007 1:29:37 PM PDT by Kuksool
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To: cpforlife.org

Thank you for pinging your list   :-)

img90/7096/thankyoush6.gif

18 posted on 05/31/2007 1:30:20 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

A Catholic Cardinal frankly stating Catholic opinion? What is this world coming to? Let the criticism being!


19 posted on 05/31/2007 1:48:07 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: ElkGroveDan; Stoat

Ditto that!


20 posted on 05/31/2007 1:52:23 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: All
The Usual Suspects are already attacking Cardinal O'Brien for daring to speak the truth.

In the event that well-wishers might like to send a kind note thanking Cardinal O'Brien for his strength and urging him to stay the course, here is contact information:

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh

HIS EMINENCE KEITH PATRICK CARDINAL O'BRIEN K.M., G.C.H.S., B.Sc., Dip.Ed., D.D., LL.D.
 
The present Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh is Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien.

The Cardinal resides at
42 Greenhill Gardens,
Edinburgh,
EH10 4BJ
T el: 0131-447 3337
f ax: 0131-447 0816

Email: cardinal@staned.org.uk


 

Cardinal O’Brien was born at Ballycastle in Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland on 17 March 1938. After primary education in Ballycastle, the Archbishop moved with his family to Scotland, initially attending St Stephen’s Primary School, Dalmuir before continuing to secondary school at St Patrick’s High School, Dumbarton. His family then moved to Edinburgh, where he completed his secondary education at Holy Cross Academy, Edinburgh and at the University of Edinburgh where he gained a degree of Bachelor of Science in 1959 (and later a Diploma of Education in 1966). His studies for the priesthood were at St. Andrew’s College, Drygrange, Roxburghshire and he was ordained priest on 3 April 1965 by his predecessor, Cardinal Gordon Joseph Gray. Initially, serving as assistant priest in Holy Cross, Edinburgh from 1965 until 1966, he completed his teacher training certificate in Moray House College of Education. For the next 5 years, from 1966 until 1971, he was employed by Fife County Council as a teacher of maths and science, as well as being Chaplain to St Columba’s Secondary School, initially in Cowdenbeath and then in Dunfermline – while assisting in St Bride’s Parish, Cowdenbeath.

He was then moved to full time parish apostolate in St Patrick’s, Kilsyth from 1972 until 1975 and then St Mary’s, Bathgate from 1975 until 1978. He was appointed Spiritual Director to St Andrew’s College, Drygrange from 1978 until 1980; and then was appointed Rector of St Mary’s College, the junior seminary at Blairs, Aberdeen from 1980 until 1985.

Cardinal O’Brien was nominated Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh on 30 May 1985 and was ordained by Cardinal Gordon Joseph Gray, then archbishop emeritus of St Andrews and Edinburgh, at St Mary’s Cathedral, Edinburgh on 5 August 1985. Pope John Paul II created the Archbishop cardinal priest, with the titles of Ss Joachim and Anne ad Tusculanum on 21 October 2003.

The Cardinal was made Bailiff Grand Cross of Honour and Devotion of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta in 2005; and appointed Grand Prior of the Scottish Lieutenancy of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem in 2001; and appointed Knight Grand Cross in 2003.

The Cardinal was awarded the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Laws from St Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada in 2004; and awarded the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Divinity from the University of St Andrews in 2004; and the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Divinity from the University of Edinburgh also in 2004.

He was Apostolic Administrator of the Diocese of Argyll and the Isles from 1996 until 1999.

After his creation as Cardinal, Cardinal O’Brien was appointed a member of the Pontifical Council for Social Communications and also a member of the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant People.

He is at present the President of the Bishops’ Conference of Scotland and fulfils various engagements outwith his own Archdiocese at the request of other members of the Bishops’ Conference.

As well as ministering in his own Archdiocese and elsewhere in Scotland, the Cardinal has always shown an intense interest in the missions, having visited initially the territory previously adopted by his own Archdiocese – Bauchi in Northern Nigeria on two occasions. He has also been with his priests on loan in Central America, having visited El Salvador on three occasions and Chiapas in Mexico on two occasions, as well as recently visiting one of his priests in Guatemala.

As a Director of the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund (SCIAF), the Cardinal has visited projects funded from Scotland in successive years – visiting Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2004, Ethiopia in 2005, and Darfur in the Sudan in 2006. He is scheduled to visit India early in 2007 and has been invited to China in the latter part of 2007. Last year he visited various projects supported by Holy Rood High School and St John’s Parish, Portobello in the Diocese of Moshi in Tanzania.


21 posted on 05/31/2007 1:53:52 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: ElkGroveDan
We a hearing this message more and more. Hopefully the more public pronouncements like this will give courage to more of them to step forward and tell it like it is.

Agreed.  This sermon was a magnificently forceful broadside not only against the murder of children ("Abortion") but also against politicians who support it by stating that they should not be given the Holy Communion.

He has thrust the staff of Truth directly into the Socialist hornet's nest, and by doing so he places himself in personal danger but also gives comfort and strength to those who also yearn for a world in which the murder of children is not sanctioned by Society.

22 posted on 05/31/2007 2:11:17 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: padre35
It would seem that people who do the wrong thing hate anyone who reminds them that what they are doing is wrong....

Evil has never been fond of mirrors   :-)

23 posted on 05/31/2007 2:13:18 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: kjo
‘Bout time someone in the Church said that they ought to enforce their own rules.

Quite a ray of sunshine this sermon was, and hopefully it will inspire many others to a similarly strong perspective.

Teddy Kennedy and other “Catholics” should never receive communion again.

Kennedy insults all Catholics by his attempts to call himself one.

24 posted on 05/31/2007 2:16:55 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ..
Scottish Cardinal calls 1967 Abortion Act pack of lies and warns Catholic politicians

25 posted on 05/31/2007 2:18:30 PM PDT by Coleus (Pray for our Troops)
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To: utherdoul
That has to be one of the bravest statements I’ve heard in a long while. He should be careful, if a muslim doesn’t get him then I’m sure some leftist will make the attempt.

I get the impression that Cardinal O'Brien would not fear martyrdom or shrink from performing his duties as he sees fit, but I agree that in today's climate he places himself in danger by daring to speak the truth.

May God Bless and Protect him.

If only more people had the balls (pardon the expression father) to make these kinds of statements our world would be a much better place.

Cardinal O'Brien is in a position to inspire others to good works, and this is precisely why the Left is reacting in such an ugly and visceral way to his words....because they are the truth and are delivered from a position of moral strength.

26 posted on 05/31/2007 2:23:26 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Coleus

Thank you for pinging your list   :-)

img90/7096/thankyoush6.gif

27 posted on 05/31/2007 2:25:51 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: padre35
It would seem that people who do the wrong thing hate anyone who reminds them that what they are doing is wrong....

That's liberalism in a nutshell.

28 posted on 05/31/2007 4:33:21 PM PDT by rhinohunter (...I'm not waiting on a lady...I'm just waiting on a Fred)
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To: Stoat

Bless this courageous Cardinal O’Brien. I also say a prayer daily, as I’m sure many of us do, for the souls of the poor Jesus’ babies who were killed in the womb.


29 posted on 05/31/2007 5:06:27 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: Stoat; Temple Owl

Good. Bump


30 posted on 05/31/2007 5:39:57 PM PDT by Tribune7 (A bleeding heart does nothing but ruin the carpet)
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To: JohnnyZ
O'Brien has been a very pleasant surprise in a lot of ways.

His elevation was kind of shocking because he had a reputation as a lib.

I doubt that many will consider him a lib after today's sermon   :-)

Perhaps he spent some time reflecting on issues and has changed his mind? 

31 posted on 05/31/2007 8:58:16 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: r9etb
He added: "Abortion is not the issue. This could be about nuclear weapons or Iraq or anything where the Catholic church has a view. To tell practising Catholics how to vote is unacceptable."

Red herring #1: it's not about nuclear weapons or Iraq or anything else. It is precisely about abortion.

Socialists love to make irrelevant comparisons and reduce essential, singular things such as Life down to the level of any other policy issue.   That's the only way that they can comprehend it, because their frame of reference doesn't allow for anything more important than a Governmental policy issue.

Red herring #2: The idea that churches or representatives thereof have no right to express opinions about political issues of the day.

Dealing with a perspective that comes forth as a result of a grounding in an appreciation of a Higher Being and a greater Truth than that of the State makes Socialists extremely uncomfortable.  God is not something that they can tax and regulate, and so to them it is something that cannot exist. 

It's almost certain the guy is lying when he says abortion is "not the issue." Of course it's the issue -- one suspects he would be very pleased, for example, if the Catholic church came out against nuclear weapons or the Iraq war.

He would love to talk about anything other than Life, preferably inanimate objects and policy matters.

32 posted on 05/31/2007 9:11:00 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Zakeet
The Cardinal's exactly correct!

Unfortunately, few realize that we commit another 9/11 almost every day in the killing centers around this country.

And we certainly cannot expect the 'news' media to ever draw such a comparison or to allow anyone on their airwaves to suggest such a thing.

We all need to be far more active in supporting people like this church leader, and in condemning those who advocate baby killing.

Cardinal O'Brien would most likely be quite appreciative of a kind word from thoughtful supporters.

I posted his contact information at #21 here.

33 posted on 05/31/2007 9:20:25 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: KenmcG414
Dear Pope,
I respectfully request that Cardinal O’Brien be transferred to the USA and that he serve in Washington DC or NYC so that he can be on the front lines in the war on abortion.

Since the UK has had this "Abortion Act" since 1967, I would suggest that they have suffered even more than we have here in the USA....longer, at least.  It's a worldwide problem and thoughtful, strong leaders such as Cardinal O'Brien are needed everywhere children are being murdered.   I would not wish to deprive our good Scottish Friends of such a great man....we can grow our own on this side of the pond.  Although we lost a powerful voice in this war with the death of Reverend Falwell, many more are rising to lead the charge.  I have great faith that Truth will ultimately win.

34 posted on 05/31/2007 9:27:45 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: wideawake
Jim Devine, the Labour MP for Livingston, said that the Cardinal's comments were an "affront to democracy".

This is precisely the lying line taken by the Gang of 18 apostates in the USA.

Is the Cardinal not a citizen? Is he not entitled to his opinions? Does he not possess freedom of speech?

The Socialist child-murder supporters who hissed like vipers at his honest and truthful words today would certainly prefer it if none of these were the case....it makes things so much more difficult for them when words supported by the Law of a Higher Being are brought into play....this is not something that they can (easily) legislate against or tax into irrelevancy.  It's beyond their frame of reference and outside of their sphere of influence and so it frightens them, as it should.

 Is it contrary to the nature or purpose of a parliamentary democracy for a constituent to publicly express his views?

The Socialists would certainly prefer it if that were the case.

35 posted on 05/31/2007 9:35:53 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Kuksool
{Jim Devine, the Labour MP for Livingston, said that the Cardinal’s comments were an “affront to democracy”.}

Funny, liberals have no problem when religious folks combat global warming and poverty.

As long as these religious folks use the methods approved of by the Left.

When you have a religious leader speak some ugly truths about the Holy Grail of the Left (the State-sanctioned murder of children) they start to get extremely nervous, and downright nasty.

The notion that Life is something special, if adopted as a foundation for governance, would undercut the power base of death, blood and money that they have so carefully crafted over the course of so many years.

Bad For Business.

36 posted on 05/31/2007 9:41:55 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Patriotic1
A Catholic Cardinal frankly stating Catholic opinion? What is this world coming to? Let the criticism being!

Socialists hate it when religious leaders clearly state Church teachings and obvious truths in a public forum.  :-)

37 posted on 05/31/2007 9:44:06 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: steve86
Bless this courageous Cardinal O’Brien. I also say a prayer daily, as I’m sure many of us do, for the souls of the poor Jesus’ babies who were killed in the womb.

I know in my heart that your prayers are making a difference and are essential in this war against State-sanctioned murder of children that we are waging.

We will ultimately prevail because of people like you.   :-)

38 posted on 05/31/2007 9:46:49 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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