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To: BornInASmallTown

A question for Constitutional Law experts: Is this an ex post facto law? I’m referring to the way it substitutes a $5,000 ‘fine’ for deportation for people who committed the crime before the law is enacted..

What I’m saying is that $5,000 ‘fine’ is what proponents are referring to when they say it isn’t amnesty. So, if that provision could be shot down, it would take away their argument that it isn’t amnesty.

To my way of thinking, because the illegals would have to pay the $5,000 as part of the process to obtain citizenship, the ‘fine’ is really a FEE, not a penalty.

Of course, either way, the bill is raising revenue and only the House can introduce revenue bills, so even if the Senate pulls the back taxes provision, the House could still blue slip it.


45 posted on 06/02/2007 10:51:27 AM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: savedbygrace
What I’m saying is that $5,000 ‘fine’ is what proponents are referring to when they say it isn’t amnesty.

My understanding is that $1,000 is paid on application for the Z visa. The other $4,000 is due if one later applies for permanent residency (you will hear the polls mysteriously refer to "pay a fine" and "then they pay *another* fine", which is merely what I describe above).

Having said that, you would be correct that the $1,000 is the only provision that makes this "not an amnesty" (and that is by a very strict definition of the word "amnesty"). If the $1,000 paid on Z visa application wasn't required, it would be an amnesty by any definition.

The foregoing is IMO a debatable and even marginal argument that "it's not amnesty", but they have gotten to lead on that debate and it may be difficult to convince anyone they're lying and misleading the public (which they are).

Still there is this: the bill prohibits local LEOs from asking anyone, anything about their legal status.

Coupled with that is any illegal brought to immigration court for deportation hearing must be offered a Z visa if they are eligible (and almost everyone is, or can make themselves eligible simply by giving a fake name and getting some simple false documentation about employment and residence). The court is also obligated to provide assistance in preparing the application for a Z visa.

Basically, illegal entry laws are eviscerated by the above laws and by the Z visa, and for an entire class of people.

IMO that's amnesty.

79 posted on 06/02/2007 12:11:07 PM PDT by angkor
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