The simple fact is you old Conservative are not at all interested in getting things done on any issue, you merely want to sit here on the side lines and mindlessly scream about everything. That why the ONLY solutions you people put up are mere slogans.
You all scream things like "Enforce the laws" (Which hasn't worked to date) "Deport them" (How?) "Punish business that hire illegals" (again how?) etc while making utterly NO effort to actually explain how any of that would actually be done.
Face it, the Antis aren't really interested in any solutions on this topic, they just enjoy the excuse to rant and rave in the most hyper hysteric bile filled terms at a President they have always hated. EVEN if they got exactly what they wanted on this topic , they would be right back here tomorrow screaming about something else.
Frankly after 7 years, Most Conservatives are sick of this constant whining.
It'd be nice to find out if it would work or not. Maybe we should try actually doing it for a couple of years.
"Punish business that hire illegals" (again how?)
I knew you were stupid, but even I didn't think that I'd have to point up that we have things called 'fines' and another thing called 'prison time' for people who repeatedly break the law.
Most Conservatives are sick of this constant whining.
How would you know? You obviously aren't one.
L
Enforcement is easy, arrest those who hire illegals, jail them for their crimes, confiscate there businesses and personel property. All of it. You will not have to do it to that many before the illegals have no jobs and start to leave.
The bill is actually an amalgam of numerous bills that were originally designed as separate ones. It is very difficult to produce good legislation when you quickly throw together disparate items crafted separately. Rudy was correct when he described the bill as a “hodgepodge.” That’s exactly what it is. It would be far better to address the issues separately and do them all well than try to do all of them at once and do none of them well.
Above all, issues of this magnitude should never be dealt with in haste. This effort to ram the bill through without the normal hearing process is an abomination. It is possible that the framework of something workable is within these bills, but the way to find out is through hearings that allow the public and all interested parties a chance to be heard and that insure careful consideration to the provisions.
When you see the kind of machinations you have here—an attempt to rush something through with regular misrepresentations from the White House about what the legislation actually says—you have good reason to suspect that someone is trying to pull a fast one on you.
ENFORCE THE LAWS -- you claim "it hasn't worked". My claim, it hasn't been tried.
1. Build the Fence. It is the law that we need to build the fence, the original 700 miles, and more if needed. Using the double fences style like the one Duncan Hunter got built for San Diego.
2. Prosecute all people caught sneaking in. They need to spend some time in detention, mabye on work farms, before being give the free ride back to Mexico.
3. Repair relations with the Border Patrol. Consider pardoning the agents who have been successfully targeted by Mexican authorities for doing their job.
4. Until very recently Jorge Arabusto had almost ZERO prosecutions of illegal employers. This seems to have picked up. Keep it up.
5. Turn off the social services spigot. Pass Federal laws making it illegal to award welfare, section-8 and other programs to illegals.
6. Run ads on the many Mexican language stations telling people "If you are illegal, the laws are changing. You will be punished if caught. Please go home".
etc.
There is a lot that could be done. It's not true that "we've tried and failed". California voters passed 187 and the corrupt Gray Davis refused to defend it in court.
That's "not trying", not "failing".
The 12 million brought themselves here and will take themselves home when Mexico has more appeal than the USA.
Damn you people with standards. Don't you know you should accept whatever Bush says as good!?
You all scream things like "Enforce the laws" (Which hasn't worked to date)
It'd be nice to see if it did work. It hasn't been tried yet.
"Punish business that hire illegals" (again how?)
Why not ask Bush this question? The bill he and Ted Kennedy support increases fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants.
What's an Anti?
Here's a another question for you... Would you benefit personally or financially from the proposed legislation allowing illegal aliens to remain in the United States?
I know you’re going to be eviscerated, but I agree with you. It’s been said a million times, we have to deal with the reality we have, not the reality we want.
If we don’t go with this proposed legislation, what is the chance of getting a more “conservative” piece of legislation through? Nada. Zilch. Oh, and in a few years it’s hello Pres. Hillbamawards & a larger congressional dem coaltion, and wait and see what kind of legislation DOES get passed.
Guess we’ll have shown them!
“Frankly after 7 years, Most Conservatives are sick of this constant whining.”
The Rasmutian Poll says otherwise Johnnie.
Only 26% support this America Changing Bill.
You are in the minority Johnnie. Sorry.
Aw, c'mon Johnnie. Americans are going to get screwed in this deal. Get your head out of your @ss and see the light of day. IF shamnesty passes, America will disintegrate into a third world cess pool.
The simple fact is you old Conservative are not at all interested in getting things done on any issue, you merely want to sit here on the side lines and mindlessly scream about everything. That why the ONLY solutions you people put up are mere slogans.
We "old" conservatives want to get things done, but we want to get them done right. Doing something wrong just to get something done, is about the most idiotic thing you've ever said.
You all scream things like "Enforce the laws" (Which hasn't worked to date) "Deport them" (How?) "Punish business that hire illegals" (again how?) etc while making utterly NO effort to actually explain how any of that would actually be done.
The reason we say "enforce the laws" is because the TRAITOR in the White House has NEVER EVEN TRIED TO ENFORCE THE LAW! THAT is why it hasn't worked.
You are wrong about not being able to "deport them." There are many ways it could happen. Arrest employers who hire them and put them in prison. IF there are NO jobs, they will go back home. Give them 30 days to return home before we turn them over to Sheriff Joe Arpao to serve time in tent cities run by him. Arrest any landlord who rents to illegals. Arrest any one who aids illegals.
Face it, the Antis aren't really interested in any solutions on this topic, they just enjoy the excuse to rant and rave in the most hyper hysteric bile filled terms at a President they have always hated. EVEN if they got exactly what they wanted on this topic , they would be right back here tomorrow screaming about something else.
We don't have to look for ANY excuse to rant and rave because we have a President who gives us plenty of reasons. Amnesty is BAD for America/Americans, and will turn America into a hell hole just like Mexico is. The violence in America has escalated and Americans are being victimized daily by illegals. They are draining our hospitals and welfare programs that were put in place to help AMERICANS, NOT MEXICANS, and it costs us to pay for them! We don't want to do that.
Frankly after 7 years, Most Conservatives are sick of this constant whining.
You are TOTALLY wrong, again! Most conservatives are intelligent enough to see the dangers that this President is leading us into. Amnesty or any form of it will destroy America. Conservatives don't want to see that happen! You are in a tiny minority of Americans who want Amnesty, and if you want to live in that environment, go live in Mexico!
Some of the lead Senators pushing this bizarre notion of what ought to be done actually seem to be senile, if not suffering from dementia. This has made even their allies leary of the bill.
You mention that to date the present laws have not been enforced; there are no plans to deport; businesses are not punished (per the law). In fact, you just made the conservativwe case.
Barnes is listing THE PROMISES made in the bill. As mentioned by someone else—former promises made into law have not been kept or implemented, so why should we fall for more of same.
As my Rep pointed out in an email to constituents, once this bill is passed,
millions become legal with the “chain” reaction of multiplying 12,000,000 by 10 when they brng their family over=120,000,000. Libs are fighting like crazy to keep that in. Then there is nothing to keep the next Congress from passing another bill doing away with the promises made to make this palatable to conservatives.
Senator Sessions of AL and his staff have gone over this bill and he listed only a handful of the most promising items being held out to conservatives and then showed where and how these were negated a few paragraphs down or in another section.
The Simpson-Mazolli bill to end immigratioin problems, passed about 25 years ago,gave us about 3,000,000 new citizens who were uneducated,
didn’t speak English and are only interersted in taking from the US. It, too,
had Teddy K’s fingerprints all over it. Making these people citizens was all it did. The problems multiplied in spite of promises.
Hey! I like the sound of the promises Barnes lists, but I like the sound of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow—
just haven’t seen any hard evidence that they exist or will exist any time soon.
vaudine
Horse crap.
You all scream things like "Enforce the laws" (Which hasn't worked to date)
It hasn't been done to date.
"Deport them" (How?)
Build the wall. Shut off the border. For the next ten years anyone caught by any type of law enforcement (bad eggs)is summarily deported. anyone voluntarily wishing to leave due to drying up the social services and job markets gets a few bucks and a bus ticket home.
After ten years of stemming the flow, and honestly enforcing the law, then lets start talking about amnesty. "Punish business that hire illegals" (again how?)
A one year transitional period where the businesses are informed they must "get ready" for heavy enforcement. During this time businesses have a grace period to get themselves legal, with misdemeanor fines for all but the worst offenders.
Institute a simple method of checking citizenship: Employer must call a federal clearinghouse to initialize a new employee onto his FedID number. If the workers sosoc number is already in use in some fashion the eligibility will be denied until the worker proves identity.
Actually having to call in will remove any need for "smart card" BS, and SoSoc numbers being "live" will stop the use of duplicate sosocs, dead folks sosocs, or invalid sosocs. (gee that would help the voter roles too, come to think of it).
With those pieces in place, THEN enforcement lowers the hammer with serious fines and jail time for non-compliance, and backed up with auditing and inspection.
Any business that has a record of flagrant abuse will be subject to even steeper fines and jail time for the next offense, with enforcement and auditing sitting on their necks for years thereafter.
While this will not stop it all, it will tend to force illegals into day labor or self employment. If insurance companies must also validate by FedID or SoSoc, then the self-employed illegal could no longer get insurance, or bonding through the state, making them ineligible for work in most of the trades.
Your statement just don't hunt, MNJohnnie. There has been no effort to stifle this at all. NONE.
-Bruce
Since you obviously aren’t conservative and are not one of us....why don’t you do us a favor and take it elsewhere.
You must have taken a wrong turn somewhere.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1841163/posts