Posted on 06/05/2007 5:11:20 PM PDT by chronotrigger
Did they ask Hillary why she hates Jews?
1) The Amerindians don’t have the concept of “Borders”. Depending on the tribes, they are either nomadic or have a loose idea of where their territory ends. Depending on the tribe “illegal aliens” are either greeted with peace pipes (or somehthing similar) or tomahawks (or sth similar).
2)You just conceded to the left that the colonization of the Americas is a bad thing and that the WASP were going around killing the natives. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was a war between two factions. The only reason the Euro descendants won is because of superior technology and the help from fellow Indians. Without this, Amerca would be roughly cut in one half, the Indian territories and the American territories.
3) They lost their culture because many of their young adopted ours. The same is happening all around the world. All the years of forcibly assimilating (ok, this is where the WASPS are wrong) did not have as much of an impact compared to the voluntary adoption by adolescents of contemporary US culture. They didn’t lose their culture because of “illegal immigration.” It was a war where the descendants of the AI adopted the culture of the victors because they deemed it superior.
I wish we’d stop using this stupid argument. Not only is it fallacious and wrong, it gives ammo to the communists and the professional victims that Whitey sucks and should pay into eternity for their “crimes”. Well if we are paying, they should pay to because they weren’t exactly nice guys you know.
I’m not paying for the sins of all those who share my ethnicity and religion. Considering that I’m descended from four groups, I’d be bankrupt. Their sins are theirs and theirs alone.
“Past German immigration and irish immigration caused some problems - a lot less with Germans who once they learned the language caused few problems, mass Irish immigration into American cities caused problems - read up on the New York City irish draft riots “
Don’t forget that often, the Irish were immediately signed on to fighting for the Union. Right off the boat escaping the potato famine. Great way to enter a country.
Here’s how the media would publish your comments IF you were Tancredo. First your statements:
1) Why do you hate Mexicans?
No one said anything about hating anyone - but, rather, I very much love America and want to preserve her unique culture, language, and identity - not sell it down to the river so some mega corporation like GE can make a few extra bucks. What you’ve done is smear me with a lie painted as a question…and the first thing I’m going to do when I’m president is to take a serious look at media ownership rules.
2) “I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?”
I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; does that mean we should abolish the justice system?
In mathematics, there is a phrase that is often used in mathematical proofs: reductio ad absurdum, reduction to an absurdity. That assertion was a prime example of one. The fact is, under your logic, everyone would either have to go back from where they came (Asians to the Middle East and eventually Africa - American Indians to North America, then Asia, then the Middle East, and then, eventually, Africa - Africans back to specific parts of the continent…) or, everyone who wanted into the country should be allowed in. That’s insane. Billions would come. The citizens of this country have every right to determine who - if anyone - is allowed in; pointing to an outlier in order to justify an illogical argument is…well, insane. It’s clear to me that Time has a tremendous bias here and is attempting to impugn my integrity and my legitimacy, both as a political figure and as a human being - something that is hardly “journalistic,” a phrase that I will never again use to describe your biased, politically motivated publication.
And then their reporting:
1) Why do you hate Mexicans?
I very much love...some mega corporation like GE. The first thing I’m going to do is to take a look at media owners.
2) “I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?”
I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; we should abolish the justice system.
Everyone would have to go back from where they came. The citizens of this country have every right to point to an outlier in order to justify an illogical argument is. It’s clear to me that Time has tremendous integrity and legitimacy.
Good post. Right on about the overblown rhetoric and emotion.
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It’s obvious
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Votes
democrats need replacement voters
They are losing voter base without illegal aliens and this bill
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childbirth ratios:
democrats have about 75 kids
Republicans have about 104 kids
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Hillary promotes abortions for Americans
You never see Hillary pushing abortions before La Raza
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PS: Hispanics (or others) who are in the USA are “devout” criminals using stolen illegally obtained or counterfeited IDs and documents
If crime is OK for them why would it be wrong for someone to carjack your vehicle, loot your home, steal your SS# and ID, raid your banl accuounts, get credit cards in your name?
Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans every day - Congressman Steve King
How “pro-life” is that?
This has zero to do with religion - or those in the clergy that willfully and knowingly break federal, state, and local laws to fill their empty pews and offering plates (but not insisting illegal aliens pay income and other taxes)
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Why do you have such hatred for people who would put America/ns interests first?
“Every immigrant group has it share of problem children. But we have gangs and thugs that are native born Americans too. Most of the Hispanics I meet, or served with in the US Military, are descent hard working respectable people.”
So what?
Most people of any ethnic group are “good people”.
Why this nonsense of tying it to “Mexicans” or “Hispanics”? It’s a complete red herring. This is about the fact that illegal immigrants who according to law should not be here are being allowed to be here. To give amnesty to lawbreakers is a slap in the face to legal immigrants and undermines rule of law. There are brilliant and wonderful people from Ireland, including my relatives, but if there is an Irish illegal immigrant, the appropriate remedy is deportation.
As for the influence of immigrants, one major problem is confusing legal immigration with illegal immigration; immigration today vs 100 years ago when skills needed in the economy were different. Apples v oranges. There are positives to having a member of society who is here to work. So let’s not cut immigration to nothing. OTOH, there is plenty of evidence that buying into legalization for 12 million illegal immigrants, the majority of them from Mexico and with low education and skill levels, is in effect importing poverty and creating a new ethnic-based underclass. This will worsen inequality, add to the welfare state costs ($2.5 trillion 25 year cost on Federal govt), impose unfunded mandates on states and local govts, and make our politics far more leftwing and disagreeable to the conservative view. This is not emotional statement, but clear and based on evidence. The amnesty of 2007 is as big in about 20 states as the 1986 amnesty was in California.
As goes Cali from 1986 to 2007 so goes the nation in 20 years... Is that what you want, MNJohnnie????
Last, I agree that Tancredo is not the man we need to run for President. But if a few people are being over the top, so be it. Al Gore is over-the-top on Global Warming, yet he is praised as some kind of prophet. Sometimes you need a lightning rod to get attention.
I can marshal no sympathy for their arguments because I'm still looking for American culture. And, given the history of American immigration policy, I feel the legalist argument is problematic at best.
The economic and defense arguments make more sense, but both often suffer from being combined with the sentiments of the cultural Identitarians (Identitarianism, I should point out, is historically a leftist idea).
I got a good story for you.
Me and some friends were at a bar and this came up, and a mexican fellow asked us why we don't want mexican illegals here, one of my friends said "the same reason you don't want illegals from central americans in your country".
This mexican guy went off on a long blubbering incoherent racist speech about the countries in central america, and why they were all bad.....and then kept rambling on about how horrible the people were from each south american country (going one by one), until the staff threw him out.
The kicker, as the bouncer was dragging him out (with this guy still screaming racist remarks about people from columbia) someone yelled out "don't just drag him out the door, take him back across the border".
It was a very surreal moment (funny, then disturbing). He soundled like a cracked out la raza klansman.
I think these guys are against sending criminals to prison, but they hvae a neat table:
Table 2
Number of Sentenced Prisoners Under
State or Federal Jurisdiction, 2003
Males
|
Total |
White |
Black |
Hispanic |
|
|
Total |
1.3M |
454,300 |
586,300 |
251,900 |
Table 3
Number of Sentenced Prisoners Under
State or Federal Jurisdiction, 2003
Females
|
Total |
White |
Black |
Hispanic |
|
|
Total |
92,784 |
39,100 |
35,000 |
16,200 |
Your post is far from “obvious”. It’s slightly more clear once you explain the jumble of thoughts behind it, but it’s hardly clear from the outset.
P.S. Illegals may kill 25 American each day (I’d be interested to see proof of that statistic as well), but car crashes kill 116+ per day. Which is the bigger danger to the average American? Statistically speaking, which is more likely to kill a person?
Interesting.
251,900 is a little over 19 percent of 1.3 million. Or, if the OP intended the second meaning, then he’s asserting that there are only 755700 illegals in the US.
There are important differences between the immigration waves of today and yesterday.
1) It was the 1840s - no foreign language television and radio networks. Immigrants were forced to assimilate.
2) Those immigration periods did not last indefinitely. They were cut off, often for decades. This allowed ample time to assimilate. The current mass immigration wave is unlikely to end anytime soon - if ever. The 1986 amnesty that was supposed to stop it did not, the 1996 expedited deportation bill - never enforced - did not, the 700 mile turned 2 mile fence did not, and this bill will not stop it either. In another 25 years we could have triple or quadruple the number of illegal aliens that we have now, if we used the ‘86 bill as a means of extrapolation. Reminds me a bit of the third Punic war. The Romans demanded the Carthaginians do more and more to avoid war; they did almost every that was demanded until the Romans, eventually, abandoned pretenses and did what they wanted to do all along: destroy Carthage. We pass one bill, then another and another…
It’s ironic that you use the argument “that’s the same thing they said before.” Thousands of years ago, in the early fifth century, Catholic Church officials used many of the same arguments that the pro-amnesty lobby now use; one example would be “they only want to make a better life for themselves.” In smaller numbers, which was the case in the early empire, that could work. But as massive, unprecedented numbers of immigrants entered the empire the Romans realized, too late, that when very large groups of people enter a region there is less pressure for them to assimilate - so much so that they can speak their own language and get by just fine. In California, the census bureau reports that the number of people who speak Spanish at home has skyrocketed, and in some counties it will be the majority language within a few years. Couple that with massively exploding populations, increased collectivization and fewer pressures to learn English (Spanish television, radio, ethnocentric organizations like MECHA and La Raza, and corporations catering to the Spanish speaking crowd) and we could find our selves in the same position, a few decades from now, as the Romans were in the latter stages of their empire: balkanized with many languages and cultures instead of one.
The Romans mistakenly believed that their past experiences with assimilating groups would hold true indefinitely, they were wrong. They found out, the hard way, that there is a difference between “immigration” and “massive, unending immigration"; the latter is better called “colonization” than immigration.
Furthermore, Mexico once made a similar mistake to the one we are making now. They let large numbers of immigrants into Texas and the Southwest - eager to populate it. They made the immigrants promise to convert to Catholicism and to become loyal subjects of Mexico - they promised but did not follow through. Soon, American immigrants outnumbered Mexicans 10 to 1 and succeeded.
The argument that the immigrants will some how “destroy the Republic” or “Demographics are fate” are pure nativist rantings.
Can’t argue with history, see above. Or the Balkans. Arguing that the past always equals the future is incorrect, and so is pretending that everything will be just fine no matter what happens.
3) The scale of this immigration period is unprecedented, even by past standards.
4) The current group which makes up the vast majority of illegal aliens, Mexicans, has a historic grievance with the United States - the 1848 Mexican American war. Many believe that the South West was stolen from their homeland of Mexico. The immigrants of the past, mainly from Europe, had few important grievances with the United States; also, the countries from which they originated were very far away - hard to maintain allegiances with. On the other hand, Mexican politicians and others have done a great deal to make sure that illegal immigrants here maintain cultural ties with Mexico (president Fox often used the phrase “Mexicans living in America”), which is not so difficult considering that Mexico and the United States share a boarder in excess of a thousand mile long. Throw in millions of unassimilated people who identify with a bordering foreign nation, millions of aliens entering every few years, ethnocentric politicians like the LA mayor (former member of MECHA who once flew a Mexican flag an illegal immigration rally), white flight (gigantic numbers of whites and blacks left California in the 90s), and fewer and fewer reasons to assimilate and, one day, we might regret not preserving our sovereignty when we had the chance.
What's happening now is that politicians, eager to compete with a future populous China, and greedy corporations have sold America down the river for perceived short term gains - neglecting the long term.
The argument that the immigrants will some how “destroy the Republic” or “Demographics are fate” are pure nativist rantings.
There is utterly no evidence that Hispanic Immigrants will do any such thing. Anymore then the Germans, the Jews, the Irish, the Blacks, the Chinese, the Japanese et al did.
Tell that to the Indians.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml
Monday, March 27, 2006 11:39 a.m. EST
Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals
“The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California’s prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces.”
Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: “Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That’s a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population.”
Former California Gov. Pete Wilson places the percentage of illegal aliens in U.S. prisons even higher. In 2001, he told Fox News Channel’s Bill O’Reilly:
“We had problems related to the costs of educating children who were acknowledged to be in the country illegally, healthcare costs. One in five in our prison population were illegal immigrants who had been convicted of a felony after entering the country illegally.”
The Federation for American Immigration Reform also turned to the Justice Department to get statistics on criminal aliens. They report:
“In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings].
[ snip ]
Up to a third of the U.S. federal prison population is composed of non-citizens, according to Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics - but not all non-citizen prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://www.houstonpress.com/2007-05-31/culture/mexican-american-culture/
Mexican American Culture
By Gustavo Arellano
Published: May 31, 2007
Has the 1965 Immigration Act proved to be a good thing or bad thing for America, and has the recent unprecedented flood of immigrants (both legal and illegal) been an overall good thing or bad thing for America? Please fully explain your answer and include economical, cultural and quality-of-life issues in 25 words or less (just kidding — take all the words you want). Please include, if you would, your opinion of the axioms “All cultures are equal” and “Diversity is our (America’s) strength.”
Punk Rock Fag!
Dear Joto Gabacho,
Better yet, here’s a one-word answer: “Yes.” No stats, as you’ll find numbers to support your position, to which I’ll retort with obscure governmental reports, and we’ll do our do-si-do until the vacas come home. Sorry, Punk Rock Fag!, but the Mexican is an open-borders, pro-amnesty kind of vato, the type who thinks any sucker willing to cross deserts and rivers or crawl through sewers for the chance of a better life deserves a shot at citizenship (provided they contribute to los Estados Unidos, don’t beat their wives and avoid feeding their children Cheetos Flamin’ Hot). That’s why I’m thrilled Congress is mulling amnesty for millions. In all fairness, I’m completamente biased on the issue — you’ll get the straight dope on all other Mexican questions except this one. Blame my papi for the intellectual inconsistency: He came to this country in the trunk of a Chevy (pronounced with a hard “ch” sound, of course) in 1968 as a 17-year-old dirt-farmer with a fourth-grade education. Lorenzo Arellano eventually ended his illegal days (though not because of the 1986 amnesty — that would’ve been his friends) and is now a proud, truck-driving citizen who doesn’t speak much English, votes absentee in every election and thinks the Guatemalan hordes will ruin this country. Why wouldn’t we want more Lorenzos? If he’s not a postmodern American, I don’t know what is.
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Republican Congressman Steve King’s official webpage
(FBI & other official stats)
(Also see Heather McDonald & Michelle Malkin & Ann Coulter & Laura Ingraham & Steve Malzberg & Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh &...)
12-13 Americans killed by illegal aliens EVERY DAY
plus
12-13 Americans killed by illegal aliens drunken drivers EVERY DAY
.
Many comprehend
Many cannot
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Happy Invasion & ID Theft & Taxes!
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25 killed by illegal aliens every day
The other day MSM said “7 more Americans killed in Iraq today!”
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What may (or may *not) be obvious to others is your distain for enforcement of American laws and for American sovereignty
*Or not
Offer actual proof
Not your opinions or anedotes
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Search Congressman Steve King & FBI Uniform Crime Reports yourself:
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What is most likely to kill a person?
My Colt .44-40 if a carjacker gets stupid
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If you are still looking for American Culture then you must be a snob.
The detective story was a form created by Edgar Allan Poe (who left quite a body of other literary works as well).
Jazz, Blues, Country & Western, Zydecco, Conjunto, Rock and Roll music not good enough for you?
Our scientific advancements, inventive nature, and the industries that sprang up not enough? While the motion picture camera was not invented in America, it was perfected here (doesn’t do much good if the film is going to flap around as it goes past the shutter). Synched sound was added here. And there were a number of creative movements in film.
Comic books, Comic strips.
Nope, too low brow for your tastes. No “American culture”. What a laugh.
Very, very good post devolve!
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