Posted on 06/10/2007 8:13:22 AM PDT by savedbygrace
I’d be very interested in the details.
And the "Motor Voter" law takes care of that oversight.
But according to Bush, its not amnesty!
We all know that there is no checking of ID’s at a voter booth. The Z visa holders could very easily register to vote and especially if same day registration becomes law then look for 12 million new voters. How many of these do you think will vote Republican not that I want law breakers to vote GOP anyways. This bill is anti-American in so many ways it blows my mind.
“They essentially become legal for $200 !”
YES CORRECT
“They never have to apply for a green card as the Z visa could be renewed indefinitely.”
YES CORRECT
Z visa doesnt expire, ever
“Did you know that if you in Hong Kong and want to come to to the U.S, one way is to invest $1,000,000 in America”
YEP
Last I looked:
Thai residency: $50K
malaysia residency: $40K
Belize residency: $100K
“A text book example of selling our country down the river for the cost of a bad meal in Manhattan.”
YES CORRECT!!!!
broken keyboard, store to get new one now
coffee in keyboard,
zapped
bump...
and hoping more folks will make informational-comment posts
I have to be harsh with you because that's a very stupid question. The real question is how much does it cost to get your green card. Which means permanent legal residence. That's the hard and expensive part. Once you have a green card citizenship takes time but there are no real barriers.
Most people who come here legally/illegally could give a crap about US citizenship. They could give a crap about the US Constitution and this nation's ideals and principles. They are only here for the money. They want that precious green card
I ask because the sleeping immigration bill charges illegal immigrants a total of $5,000, and Bush calls that a penalty that means it isn't an amnesty.
That $5000 is for a Z visa and or green card. It gets confusing plus I've seen different numbers
Every illegal alien wants legal residence with its green card. Citizenship is a totally different thing. Same for the freepers who are doing it all legally. The expensive and difficult part is the green card. Citizenship comes after green card and is much easier
It's irrelevant how much the process of citizenship costs.
Amnesty might not be free if they were to multiply the number of years they have lived "in the shadows" (except for "demonstrations", of course) times $1000 plus interest.
Just for grins, what is the official penalty in the statutes for working when not entitled to do so? Before this amnesty fever took hold?
Just asking... ®
20 Loopholes in the Senate Immigration Bill
* Loophole 20 – Criminal Fines Not Proportional To Conduct:
[snip]
Under the bill, an illegal alien must pay a $1,000 criminal fine to apply for a Z visa, and a $4,000 fine to apply for a green card. Eighty percent of those fines can be paid on an installment plan.
[$1,000 * 80% = $800 payable on installment / angkor]
[See p. 287: 34, p. 317: 9, p. 315:6-8, & remarks made by Secretary Gutierrez on Your World with Neil Cavuto, 4:00 May 31, 2007]
That's incredibly easy to counter: ill-gotten gains.
The entire premise of punishment for a crime is that you do not retain the gains of the crime - rob a bank....drive off with a million dollars in your car....get caught and go to jail for a few years and what happens when you get out?
Do the police give you your car back with the million dollars still in it?
The illegal immigrant bill allows illegals to pay a fine to keep the ill-gotten gains, and that is amnesty.
Period. End of argument.
20 Loopholes in the Senate Immigration Bill
* Loophole 20 – Criminal Fines Not Proportional To Conduct:
[snip]
Under the bill, an illegal alien must pay a $1,000 criminal fine to apply for a Z visa, and a $4,000 fine to apply for a green card. Eighty percent of those fines can be paid on an installment plan.
[$1,000 * 80% = $800 payable on installment / angkor]
[See p. 287: 34, p. 317: 9, p. 315:6-8, & remarks made by Secretary Gutierrez on Your World with Neil Cavuto, 4:00 May 31, 2007]
Let’s face it, if they came here illegally to begin with...
Talk about stating the obvious...
The one that always makes me laugh is that
"If they didn't obey the old laws, what makes anyone with an IQ higher than a dog's
believe that they will comply with the new ones?
*You might be able to add to this discussion ping!*
$5000 is not a fine, its pretty much the cost of the process now for most people.
Presently, it can come up to almost $15000, including all fees. More importantly, with the current backlog, it takes close to 10 years from application to citizenship. With amnesty, legal immigrants will be treated on par with criminals.
WOW!!! So, $4000 of that 5000 is a Green Card application fee?
What “fine” is that? All legal immigrants have to pay the GC fees and much more. Boy, is this a sell-out or what?
That is a brilliant analogy and the best logical argument I have read anywhere on this issue. This is a hall of famer response. Now if liberals (and that includes RINO’s) did not make decisions totally on emotions, your response here should end the argument once and for all.
Thank you, dennisw. I confess to an incorrectly phrased question.
I want to compose a very simple counter-argument, that is memorable to most people.
To date, the counters to the ‘this is not amnesty’ dribble is to either say, “Yes, it is,” or to spend paragraphs explaining why it is amnesty.
I think we need a one to three sentence response that people can understand and remember.
Psycho_Bunny is getting close with her reply in #31.
Honorable Jeff Sessions is very good but I’ve heard different numbers. Plus you have Z2 and Z3 visas for children and parents plus nuclear families seem to get some kind of group discount on the Z Visas??? The Z Visa you hear about is also the primary Z Visa for the head of household with wife and children getting subsidiary Z Visas.
And did this Z Visa plan allow Z Visa holders to bring wives and children from outside the USA? This was unclear. Maybe a lot of this bill was purposely not clear so the lawyers and liberal judges could have their way with it
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