Posted on 06/10/2007 8:39:55 AM PDT by rface
Go read the I-9 form. You, the HR person, are not allowed to specify which of the many forms of easily-forged ID you’re going to accept. You must accept ANY of the stated combinations of ID deemed acceptable by the I-9 form.
Many of the documents listed on the I-9 form are very easily forged, and they look completely genuine. All it takes is a quality printer, ink and the right kind of paper or card stock. Not a problem.
What we need is a mechanism where the employers are given a database or call-in number where they can get the ID #’s on these documents checked against the database of legit ID’s. The response is either “yes, the # is consistent with the person’s name and the date of issue” or “no, there is a problem.”
Then REQUIRE the employer to use this database check before any employment is offered. If the ID check fails, the employer MAY NOT offer a job.
This isn’t rocket science, but because so many people aren’t employers and haven’t read the forms that employers see, they don’t know that the government is the central enabling culprit here: they’ve structured a market in ID theft and forged documents by the very language on the I-9 form.
It doesn't matter how I define anything constitutionally - but here's my attempt.
ANYBODY who pays into Social Security using numbers provided by an employee, is my definition of an employer.....in this instance.
I don't consider EITHER of them to be "a wrong". If you're going to do business, you have to obeys the laws required of business. One of those is to verify the legality of your employees. It is unfortunate that that is needed, but "that's the way it is".
All you "don't burden business" jerks don't seem to realize that these unscrupulous, dishonest, lawbreaking BUSINESS OWNERS are a huge part of the problem. OBEY OUR LAWS, OR BE SHUT DOWN.
Closet socialist treat business as part of the nanny state infrastructure.
I think that a citizen has a right to trade his property. Just because you want to deny people their property rights does not make it right. A business in nothing more than people exercising their property rights by buying and selling their property.
How about the government doing it's job and secure the border, so we do not have to play border patrol?
It matters to me. All of our laws should be in concert with the Constitution. If there are a class of citizens to be known as "Employers" it should have it's basis in the Constitution.
If some citizens are to subject to their loss of liberty for trading with illegal people, then all citizens should be.
Can you find that all citizens should be treated equally under the law, any where in the Constitution?
The federal government requires them too do so. Basic humanity requires us to do so. About this aspect of the issue, your gripe and mine is who pays for all this? I suggest that the country of origin pay their citizens bills. Thus you and I no longer have to pay their bills through taxes and insurance and their countries of origin finally have a disincentive in allowing illegal aliens to come here. And yes we do have the ability to make them pay. We just don’t have the will.
Please tell me why we have to wait for them to cross our borders first then? You may decide that you want to care for and educate the indigent of the world, but please leave me out of this.
ML/NJ
Great reply Dick.
Semper Fi’
Jarhead
Sure "he" does--as an individual. But once that individual action crosses the line into commercial enterprise, it loses that distinct level of protection. Only individuals have rights---businesses to not.
"Commercial Enterprise" another Constitutional term.
So an Individual with inherent rights, looses his rights, or rather his rights are ignored, if some wise apple comes across and defines his exercising of his property rights a "Commercial Enterprise".
Next I will expect you to suggest that an individuals right to publish is null and void, you know non-inherent, if the publishing is deemed a "Commercial Enterprise".
My point in all of this is simply this.
The federal government should secure the border. This is what we pay the Border Patrol to do. If we are to make individuals in this country, at home, work or play, play Border Patrol, at the risk of their liberty, then we should make all citizens Border Patrol agents.
Interesting that the penalty for a real Border Patrol agent in letting an illegal slip by is not a darn penny. I find it odd that some want to come down with a lead filled Jack Boot, on regular citizens, for failing to play Border Patrol.
Just say NO to Amnesty!! Keep calling!! Its NOT OVER!!
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Any person who pays into the SS system using a name that doesn't match a number should pay a price. That is a simple and straightforward statement that everyone should agree with.....If you want to make it a constitutional issue - then go at it. Common people with common sense don't have a problem understanding how much of the problem this simple demand would fix.
Current law makes anyone born here a citizen. We would have to pass a law that says the opposite, and survive a 14th Amendment challenge in order to change things, and it could not be applied retroactively to people who are currently US citizens.
Yup. Our Creator didn't grant rights to groups, he granted them to "the people" as individuals. The same way He'll judge us after death.
"Next I will expect you to suggest that an individuals right to publish is null and void, you know non-inherent, if the publishing is deemed a "Commercial Enterprise"."
How does a group can "inherit" anything. There are "some" things in the Constitution that don't fit into the "inherent rights" category, but that are protected because they make for a better society. An example is patent and copyright. But those "rights" are subject to change by law--NOT "inherent". The "rights" of commercial "entities" fits that category.
Say the Pete and Joe have property rights as individuals, now does God take their rights away if they work together on a project?
I say no.
What the Constitution says is that the right to OWN property is protected--not how it is/was gotten. That is your fundamental error. All business law is a legal fiction subject to change by changing the law---not in the same class as the inherent rights---just like patents and copyrights.
"I say no."
And you're wrong.
I suppose you also believe that God gave you the right to Publish, but you need Man’s permission to share what you have published.
Listen to what you are saying. God gives you rights, but he will take them back if a government decides you do not need them.
You can not be serious.
God says that the property we have shouldn't be taken from us arbitrarily. Man decides by what avenues one can get such property. Otherwise, we'd be free to traffic in ways harmful to our fellow beings, or obtain property by stealing it from others.
"I suppose you also believe that God gave you the right to Publish, but you need Mans permission to share what you have published.
"Listen to what you are saying. God gives you rights, but he will take them back if a government decides you do not need them."
I suggest that YOU listen to what I am saying. God grants INDIVIDUAL rights, not group rights. Above a certain level, government DOES have the right to determine how those rights are implemented. To use your "right to publish" example--the Constitution recognizes "freedom of the press", which ONLY applies to what a newspaper prints. Other aspects of it's business are subject to government regulation, and rightly so.
"You can not be serious."
I'm completely serious. The bogus transition from individual freedoms to "group rights" comes right out of the socialist agenda.
“Where’s the money appropriated to build the fence?”
They spent it on ‘earmarks’...
I’m a small business owner, south of York (PA), and say a bigtime ***AMEN*** to your comment, Dave.
I’m drowning in damned gov’t regs and paperwork; and since 1989, it’s gotten 100x worse!
I see illegals being hired by competitors, everyday, and I refuse to overlook their illegal, criminal status, lack of I-9 documents and disdain for out laws. I won’t hire them, no matter how cheap their labor is. I absolutely refuse, dammit!
My competition doesn’t give a rat’s rearend, and they are hiring amd using them in landscape/greenhouse/field worker crews, in ever-increasing quantities. I don’t need the legal and bad PR problems, IMO.
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