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To: Valin

This isn’t exactly true.

Arabic isn’t literally translated, so to speak. There are a number of ways to say a word or a phrase. The context is also altered by the reference it is made in.

I’ve read 4 different translations of the Koran. They aren’t all violent.


4 posted on 06/11/2007 2:03:01 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Calpernia
As I understand it the translations and context depend on whose tent you are in at the time!
8 posted on 06/11/2007 2:15:57 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Calpernia
I’ve read 4 different translations of the Koran. They aren’t all violent.

Is that because the translators really believed it or were they trying to make Islam nonthreatening?

9 posted on 06/11/2007 2:16:00 PM PDT by magslinger (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors. And miss. R.A.Heinlein)
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To: Calpernia

Oh No No No! As all right thinking true blue yankee doddle dandy American KNOW the only thing the Koran says is KILL KILL KILL.
It’s quite obvious to me that you are a 5th columnist sent here to undermine America in this war. Just like George Bush (or should I say Jorge Bush). You’re probably a Multi- culturist, one worlder who want to drain off our vital essences’s. You just wait when Tom Tancredo takes over, we’ll fix your wagon

This reply has been given the seal of approval American Sarcastic Society


12 posted on 06/11/2007 2:22:18 PM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: Calpernia
Basically the koran is powerless against evil.

Even the koran itself admits this by saying that people with evil intent are not changed by reading the koran (sura III:7)

That is very different from the Bible which is God’s word and will not return to God void or without effect. (Isa. 55:11)

This becomes an interesting dilemma in Islam because Islam has no established human hierarchy. While there are different sects of Islam they all reference as their authority....the koran. But if some are evil and some are Good, then their own koran is useless to decide.

So when truth can’t be determined through reading (mental) or though spiritual intervention (Holy Spirit) the only thing left is physical. If radicals go into a village and believe in the violent way, but the majority of the village don’t, then the “truth” is determined by who is last standing.

Guess what? Evil/violence wins every time.

You may believe in a "peaceful Islam" but the evidence of Islam shows that those "peaceful Muslims" can neither prove to their own brethern that warring jihad is wrong or stop them from engaging in violent jihad.

17 posted on 06/11/2007 2:30:55 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Calpernia
"I’ve read 4 different translations of the Koran. They aren’t all violent."

Then you haven't read "official" korans. All translations say the same thing.
They are all violent.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

It's important to know when and where Mohammad said that. It is the last Sura of the Koran, said near the time of Mohammads death. It abrogates any earlier sura which may conflict with it.

Rule of abrogation:

Bukhari:V6B60N8 "Umar said, ‘Our best Qur'an reciter is Ubai. And in spite of this, we leave out some of his statements because Allah's Apostle himself said, "Whatever verse or revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten We bring a better one."

Qur'an 33:21 "You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow."

And THAT my FRiend, is why Islam can NEVER be a "religion of peace".

42 posted on 06/11/2007 10:27:57 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Calpernia
I’ve read 4 different translations of the Koran. They aren’t all violent.

The Muslim Student Association has an online Quran, with three translations side-by-side. The violent passages are fairly consistent with each other. For example:

002.191 YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
In reading the Quran, you should look at the chronology. The later (war-like) chapters from the Madina period replace the earlier "peace" chapters written in the Mecca period
46 posted on 06/12/2007 4:45:56 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: Calpernia
I’ve read 4 different translations of the Koran. They aren’t all violent.
Ahhhhh, I see. So you're saying all the terrorists are just reading the wrong translation. I think we have a solution to terrorism then, don't we?
48 posted on 06/12/2007 4:53:09 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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