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To: saveliberty
I don’t really consider that “amnesty” nor “fast-tracking” and I’m not sure how anyone else could, either. What am I missing?

What she's missing--and what the bill misses--is that, given past behavior history, the vast majority of illegals aren't going to WANT to get permanent resident status or citizenship. Why should they? They can get a probationary Z-visa in one day, and that gives them, what, four years?

We've altered things in this country to the point where they don't NEED citizenship or even permanent residency...or hell, even legal temporary residency. Right now, without any proof of legal status, or with easily forged documents, an illegal can: own property, own a car, drive a car, hold a job, get healthcare, get schooling, and basically anything else a citizen can do except (legally) own a firearm, or vote. So why should they pay $9,000 in fines?

That's the difference between this generation of immigrants and all prior to them, including more recent ones like the "boat people" from Southeast Asia in the 1970s. This group does not, in general, need nor want citizenship. They're doing just fine as guest workers. They don't need nor want to assimilate. They're not Mexican-Americans or Guatemalan-Americans or ANYTHING-Americans. They're Mexican or Guatemalan or whatever.

And that's where the bill falls down. It assumes that these 12-20+ million folks that are here will line up for legal work status, permanent resident status, and then maybe citizenship, paying fines along the way. But if they don't need to, why should they? It's assuming behavior that this generation of illegal immigrants simply hasn't shown before, because they have no need to. Then tack on the fact that you're throwing these 12-20+ million at an immigration bureaucracy that's one of the most top-to-bottom incompetent in the Federal government, and that can't handle the case load that it's got already, and you've got what basically amounts to a non-fix.

If local and state (and Federal) laws were tightened up to the point where being a citizen MEANT something, and if I had any faith that subsequent Congresses and administrations wouldn't gut the enforcement provisions and "triggers", and if I thought that ICE could actually handle the new workload without snafuing it up completely, then I think something like the Bush/Senate proposal wouldn't be so bad. But as it is, it's garbage.

The only immigration "reform" that will work is enforcement-first. Period. Crack down on illegals and their employers. Secure the border. Deport those that are caught back to their home country, no exceptions. Repeal the anchor baby provision. Once you do all that, with enforcement firmly in place FIRST, only then you can start talking about guest workers and provisional Z-visas and such. To do anything else is, in a word, amnesty.

}:-)4

141 posted on 06/12/2007 5:29:35 AM PDT by Moose4 (Just junk all across the horizon, a real highwayman's farewell...)
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To: Moose4

Great post.

I think that it’s fair to ask the government to show the good faith by enforcing well and tightening down on the requirements.

But it’s also a risk because by demanding an enforcement period, we go to the next congress and President and we don’t know if we will be in a better or worse position.


161 posted on 06/12/2007 5:38:05 AM PDT by saveliberty (Prayer blizzard for Tony and Jill Snow and their family.)
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To: Moose4; saveliberty
We've altered things in this country to the point where they don't NEED citizenship or even permanent residency

Correct. The Z visa is permanent. You can stay forever, no need for PR or citizenship.

You know who "immigration reform" really "brings out of the shadows"?

Tyson, Hormel, Libby, Cargill, American Home Builders Assoc., Council of Fast Food Restaurants, etc. Enormous trade groups (aka K Street Lobbyists) who presently open themselves to massive RICO lawsuits due to their huge illegal alien workforces.

306 posted on 06/12/2007 8:34:23 AM PDT by angkor
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