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To: saveliberty
Here we go.

Saveliberty, you have chosen to post a completely fallacious, unsigned editorial from USA Today as backing for your own position. I'm going to address its flaws sentence by sentence.

I am also going to warn you right upfront that there are many folks here on FR who've spent considerable time reading source documents, e.g., S.1348 and S.AMDT.1150 and amendments, as well as external legal analyses. This USA Today editorial you've cioted is wrong, top to bottom. To wit:

USA Today claims: Over time, illegal immigrants would have to pay fines and fees of more than $9,000 (plus thousands more for each family member).

No, the Z1 householder pays a $1,000 fine upon application, 80 percent of which is payable in installments (thus, $200). There will be a one-time processing (application) fee of less than $1,500, and a $500 one-time state impact fee. That totals a maximum of $3,000. No fee (if any) has yet been specified for the 4-year renewal fee, if the 4-year renewal provision even survives. So, for the first 8 years of residence under a Z1 visa, I see $3,000. Where is the other $6,000 that USA Today has conjured?

USA Today claims: They'd have to prove they're working and have no significant criminal record.

Primary documents establishing "proof" of employment are paystubs, IRS records, Social Security records, etc. Alternate acceptable records are bank deposits, remittance records, etc., or affidavits from non-family members. Which means that upon application one needs (for example) an affidavit and a remittance receipt. That's pretty lax.

the criminal background check is U.S.-only. There is no established method to check the criminal record in the applicant's home country, nor does the bill require it.

USA Today claims: They'd have to learn English and American civics.

Yes, before renewal at four years. My wife is an immigrant and learned basic functional English in less than one year of part-time study and on-the-job practice. She learned American civics over about a year in her (county provided) ESL English class; in a (free) American civics class; and through self-study (books, CDs, and myself) at home during the evenings.

If a Z1 applicant cannot learn these things in four years, they are simply too stupid to function as "guest workers" in our advanced technological society.

USA Today claims: And, if they want legal permanent residence, they'd have to return to their home country to apply for it there. No, they do not. S.AMDT.1150 states "The Z applicant must apply abroad" for permanent residence. Not "their home country". Further, the head-of-household Z1 visa holder can also get "green cards" for his entire family during this single trip "abroad". S.AMDT.1150 states "Derivative family members may adjust their status (i.e., get a green card without leaving the U.S.) if the principal Z-1 alien has been given a green card."

In practice this will mean a border run to Mexico or Canada to mail the application.

USA Today claims: Getting a green card would take at least eight years, citizenship at least 13.

So what? People who are completely ignorant of America's immigration practices don't understand that "eight years" is not an uncommon length of time to obtain a green card, except for spousal and the two other direct-family visas, which can still take a year.

The difference is that those applicants wait outside of the United States for their GC approvals, while Z visa holders can afford to wait forever in America since (a) they're already here with work authorization and (b) their Z visas do not ever expire. That is a HUGE advantage to the Z visa holder (aka illegal alien) versus the law-abiding immigration applicant.

As for the insinuation that 13 years for citizenship is some kind of horrible burden, all I can say is "stupid, ignorant, naive, uninformed". 13 years is quite reasonable and normal for citizenship.

220 posted on 06/12/2007 6:12:53 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
the criminal background check is U.S.-only

Has to be done in by 24 hrs I think.

230 posted on 06/12/2007 6:22:11 AM PDT by anglian
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To: angkor
They'd have to learn English and American civics.
Read #216.
242 posted on 06/12/2007 6:49:34 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: angkor

Excellent post. Thank you. I will be bookmarking it.

My fiancee has been waiting 4 years for his greencard and there no end in sight. For some reason (his lawyers fault or bureaucracy?) he has to resubmit paperwork he sent in October of 05. He also just got notice that the fees will be going up soon. So even though he submitted his paperwork ages ago, and made the required payments with it, he will have to pay the difference between the increased fee and what he paid. Just because it’s taking so frigging long to get the GC.

And this is for a legal immigrant!

I always joked that we would be married before his GC came through. We’re getting married 2 July. Looks like I was right.


261 posted on 06/12/2007 7:21:33 AM PDT by elc (Guns kill people the same way the spoon made Rosie O'Donnell fat.)
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To: angkor

As I linked earlier, the employer gets clobbered.


486 posted on 06/12/2007 4:29:54 PM PDT by saveliberty (Prayer blizzard for Tony and Jill Snow and their family.)
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To: angkor

Good ole’ Tony Snowjob.


782 posted on 06/14/2007 12:44:28 AM PDT by miliantnutcase
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