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To: lifebygrace
I suppose that one philosophical basis for my criticisms of the notion of evolution is that I have observed an array of deliberate functional relationships between living form and inanimate features in nature that could not exist outside of the presence of an external, controlling designer.

If true, that would make you unique among all people. Behe, who has a genuine PhD in the relevant subject, and is a tenured professor, could not list any such features while testifying as an expert witness under oath.

You ask me what I believe. I believe, along with St. Augustine, that when well established science appears to contradict a literal reading of scripture, that the reading and interpretation need to be adjusted. I share his belief that when Christians and Muslims deny that the earth moves, or the earth orbits the sun, or that the earth is billions of years old, or that living things are all related by descent, then religion looks foolish, and the people making religion look foolish are destroying the thing they claim to protect.

Incidently, qualified people like Behe, do not deny common descent.

571 posted on 06/29/2007 8:18:46 AM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
“...If true, that would make you unique among all people....”

I am not at all unique in my ability to observe the obvious, and I am hardly the first person with a natural sciences background to criticize the notion of evolution.

“...Behe, who has a genuine PhD in the relevant subject, and is a tenured professor, could not list any such features while testifying as an expert witness under oath...”

I’m familiar with Behe, and I’m sure that he testified in conformance with what he believes to be true. But possessing a PhD does not, in and of itself, qualify anyone to serve as an accurate guide to true north on any topic.

You also mentioned that when asked for his “expert opinion” in court, Behe could not come up with any discrepancies in evolutionary theory of the sort that I mentioned in my previous post.

The implication seems to be that Behe must have been telling the truth because not only does he possess a PhD but he was under oath and swore to tell the truth...the whole truth, so help him God. That’s an interesting and somewhat ironic thing for you to put your trust in, arguing as you have from a position that does not recognize God as a transcendent source of ultimate and unchanging truth.

“...I believe, along with St. Augustine, that when well established science appears to contradict a literal reading of scripture, that the reading and interpretation need to be adjusted...”

This is perhaps the crux of our disagreement. It is a disagreement, first and foremost, of world view. You follow the secular line of thought that there is a dichotomy between science and religion (e.g. “Science does not deal with God”), and appear to follow the naturalistic assertion that nature is all that exists, life arose from chance, evolving eventually into life as we have it today. A consequence of your beliefs is that faith in a transcendent God is not rational, and that when it comes to questions about the world it is science that will reveal objective facts and that these facts represent ultimate truth.

I have elsewhere been clear that my faith is in God and that I am a Christian, so I am obligated to disagree with you. Belief in God is actually quite rational, although Christians today generally do a very poor job of arguing that and many buy into the “false dichotomy” argument and allow their faith to be compartmentalized and thus marginalized. But genuine Christianity is a complete world view: it is a way of seeing and comprehending _all_ reality.

This has a profound impact on scientific inquiry. To paraphrase from a book I am reading right now: The scriptural basis for understanding Christianity to be a comprehensive world view is the Creation account - everything that exists comes into being at his command and is therefore subject to him, finding its purpose and meaning in him. God created the natural world and natural laws, just as God created our minds and the laws of logic and imagination.

The implication is that in every topic we investigate, the truth is found only in relationship to God and his revelation. Thus, the assertion that science -- a term that collectively embraces the means through which humanity exercises its curiosity about the natural world -- is ever really independent of the relationship between people and God is an illusion. Similarly, the claim that “science does not deal with God” and the claim that others make acknowledging the role of a transcendent God in creation is irrational is false. In point of fact, Christ is actually referred to as the “logos” in the original Greek of the New Testament -- literally, Christ is the idea, the word, the rational pattern of creation, the order of the universe.

So, while many Christian scientists have unfortunately bought in to the secular and postmodern notion that Christianity can be or should be reduced to mere religious practice or observance, a proper understanding of and application of biblical teaching compels the Christian scientist to understand Christianity as the all encompassing-truth, the light in which everything else is seen and understood.

Thus, your quote -- while perfectly in accordance with a secular and postmodern world view -- is incompatible with a biblical world view because it suggests that biblical revelation about creation should be subject to revision and reinterpretation according to the vagaries of human revelation.

"...Incidently, qualified people like Behe, do not deny common descent..."

From what you have said so far, you’ve made it pretty clear that you place a great deal of faith in the ability of science -- and its pantheon of august intellectual bright lights -- to reveal truth. A Biblical world view means recognizing that people are fallible and that they are not the ultimate source of truth. Thus, I cannot and do not share your faith. While I have met or known many well-educated, articulate, and even visionary scientists, their observations and assertions of truth must always be held up in light of God’s greater wisdom.

Consistent with his character, God has clearly and undeniably organized the natural world according to law and order. As I have said elsewhere, common descent -- which is predicated upon the chaos inherent to evolutionary theory and contradicts the biblical creation account -- is not compatible with God’s revealed word or his character. Thus, it is not God's revelation that must be reconsidered but rather humanity's errant efforts to understand it through the secular lens of evolutionary theory and common descent.

575 posted on 06/30/2007 2:05:23 PM PDT by lifebygrace
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