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1 posted on 06/23/2007 12:23:07 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

What next, can’t say the word murder during a murder trial? Child molester when a child molester is on trial? That’s insane.


2 posted on 06/23/2007 12:27:56 AM PDT by jaredt112
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To: Lorianne
"...'Rape' is not even a legal term, he noted. And while 'sexual assault' is, that references something only the jury can determine, he said..."

Let's see:

A lawyer says the witnesses opposing his client may not use a legal term nor a non-legal term in trial.

3 posted on 06/23/2007 12:31:05 AM PDT by Does so
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To: Lorianne

There are a surprising number of crazy judges rendering decisions. I am almost wondering if judges should be required to pass a sanity test.

I am curious about the case where the words “marriage” and “family values” were banned because “they are hate speech and could scare workers.”


4 posted on 06/23/2007 12:36:00 AM PDT by KittyKares
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To: Lorianne
What does this Clymer of a judge want instead of the real term? Undocumented Sexual Partner?
5 posted on 06/23/2007 12:46:43 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (The man who said "there's no such thing as a stupid question" has never talked to Helen Thomas.)
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To: Lorianne
Earlier testimony showed the two were strangers who met at a Lincoln bar the night of Oct. 30, 2004. They had drinks and left together about 1 a.m. Police reports show Bowen told an investigator the following day she could not remember most of the previous evening and that she did not willingly accompany Safi.

Unless thaere was physical evidence of battery, I'd be hard pressed to vote guilty given these circumstances.

6 posted on 06/23/2007 1:02:51 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: Lorianne
"Rape" is not even a legal term, he noted. And while "sexual assault" is, that references something only the jury can determine, he said.

According to this judge’s legal philosophy how can the bailiff even read the charges against the defendant.

It was my understanding that the prosecutor was to accuse the defendant of a crime and the jury was to decide if the defendant was guilty of that crime.

So if the prosecutor can not even mention the crime of which the defendant is accused how is the jury to judge this man.

8 posted on 06/23/2007 1:13:34 AM PDT by Pontiac (Patriotism is the natural consequence of having a free mind in a free society.)
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To: Lorianne

The judge better ban “A$$hole” too, otherwise no one will use the term “your honor”


12 posted on 06/23/2007 2:36:28 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: Lorianne
I understand that there are liberal judges as well as conservative judges and would not condone restrictions on either, but there needs to be something done to prevent psychotic people from the bench.

This is plain nuts.

13 posted on 06/23/2007 2:45:50 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: Lorianne

This might not be as kooky as it sounds. In this case, the two were getting drunk together and then had sex. The judge just wants exactly what happened detailed, and for the jury to determine if it was rape.


15 posted on 06/23/2007 3:37:31 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Lorianne
"It's like saying to a robbery victim, 'You can’t say you were robbed, because that's a legal judgment. You can only say you gave your stuff to the defendant.' That's absurd."

Bogus example because you would say "The defendant held on gun on me and demanded my stuff..."

17 posted on 06/23/2007 3:39:36 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Lorianne

When a society allows “words” to be twisted
and turned or even banned, freedom and liberty
are in serious trouble.


18 posted on 06/23/2007 3:56:34 AM PDT by sirchtruth (No one has the RIGHT not to be offended...)
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To: Lorianne

I actually agree.


20 posted on 06/23/2007 4:13:16 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Lorianne

The alleged victim is being legally raped by a judge.


22 posted on 06/23/2007 4:49:55 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: Lorianne
"Rape" is not even a legal term, he noted.

So who is going to tell Sir William Blackstone that he was wrong when he wrote in the legal classic Commentaries on the Laws of England:


III. A THIRD offense, against the female part also of his majesty's subjects, but attended with greater aggravations than that of forcible marriage, is the crime of rape, raptus mulierum, or the carnal knowledge of a woman forcibly and against her will. This, by the Jewish law,19 was punished with death, in case the damsel was betrothed to another man; and, in case she was not betrothed, then a heavy fine of fifty shekels was to be paid to the damsels's father, and she was to be the wife of the ravisher all the days of his life; without that power of divorce, which was in general permitted by the Mosaic law.

THE civil law20punishes the crime of ravishment with death and confiscation of goods: under which it includes both the offense of forcible abduction, or taking away a woman from her friends, of which we last spoke; and also the present offense of forcibly dishonoring them; either of which, without the other, is in that law, sufficient to constitute a capital crime. Also the stealing away a woman from her parents or guardians, and debauching her, is equally penal by the emperor's edict, whether she consent or is forced: "sive volentibus, sive nolentibus mulieribus, tale facinus fuerit perpetratum." ["The crime will be the same whether the woman consent or not."] And this, in order to take away from women every opportunity of offending in this way; whom the Roman laws suppose never to go astray, without the seduction and arts of the other sex: and therefore, by restraining and making so highly penal the solicitations of the men, they meant to secure effectually the honor of the women. "Si enim ipsi raptores metu, vel atrocitate poenae, ab hujusmodi facinore fe temperaverint, mulli mulieri, sive volenti, sive nolenti, peccandi locus relinquetur; quia hoc ipsum velle mulierum, ab insidiis nequissimi hominis, qui meditatur rapinam, inducitur. Nisi etenim eam solicitaverit, nisi odiosis artibus circumvenerit, non faciet eam velle in tantum dedecus sese prodere." ["For if the ravisher be restrained from a crime of this nature, either by fear or severity of punishment, no opportunity is left for a woman to offend either willingly or unwillingly, because the desire is always raised in her by the wicked seductions of the man who meditates the violence. For unless he solicit her, unless he compass his design by odious arts, he could never make her wish to betray herself to such dishonor."] But our English law does not entertain quite such sublime ideas of the honor of either sex, as to lay the blame of a mutual fault upon one of the transgressors only: and therefore makes it a necessary ingredient in the crime of rape, that it must be against the woman's will.

RAPE was punished by the Saxon laws, particularly those of king Athelstan,21 with death: which was also agreeable to the old Gothic or Scandinavian constitutions.22 But this was afterwards thought too hard: and in its stead another severe, but not capital, punishment was inflicted by William the conqueror; viz. castration and loss of eyes;23 which continued till after Bracton wrote, in the reign of Henry the third. But in order to prevent malicious accusations, it was then the law, (and, it seems, still continues to be so in appeals of rape24) that the woman should immediately after, "dum recens fuerit maleficium" ["while the injury is recent"], go to the next town, and there make discovery to some credible persons of the injury she has suffered; and afterwards should acquaint the high constable of the hundred, the coroners, and the sheriff with the outrage.25 This seems to correspond in some degree with the laws of Scotland and Arragon,26 which require that complaint must be made within twenty four hours: though afterwards by statute Westm. 1 c. 13. the time of limitation in England was extended to forty days. At present there is no time of limitation fixed: for, as it is usually now punished by indictment at the suit of the king, the maxim of law takes place that nullum tempus occurrit regi [no time runs against the king]: but the jury will rarely give credit to a stale complaint. During the former period also it was held for law,27 that the woman (by consent of the judge and her parents) might redeem the offender from the execution of his sentence, by accepting him for her husband; if he also was willing to agree to the exchange, but not otherwise.

IN the 3 Edw. I. by the statute Westm. 1. c. 13. the punishment of rape was much mitigated: the offense itself being reduced to a trespass, if not prosecuted by the woman within forty days, and subjecting the offender only to two years imprisonment, and a fine at the king's will. But, this lenity being productive of the most terrible consequences, it was in ten years afterwards, 13 Edw I. found necessary to make the offense of rape felony, by statute Westm. 2. c. 34. And by statute 18 Eliz. c. 7. it is made felony without benefit of clergy: as is also the abominable wickedness of carnally knowing or abusing any woman child under the age of ten years; in which case the consent or non-consent is immaterial, as by reason of her tender years she is incapable of judgment and discretion. Sir Matthew Hale is indeed of opinion, that such profligate actions committed on an infant under the age of twelve years, the age of female discretion by the common law, either with or without consent, amount to rape and felony; as well since as before the statute of queen Elizabeth:28 but the law has in general been held only to extend to infants under ten.

A MALE infant, under the age of fourteen years, is presumed by law incapable to commit a rape, and therefore it seems cannot be found guilty of it. For though in other felonies malitia supplet aetatem [malice is equivalent to age], as has in some cases been shown; yet, as to this particular species of felony, the law supposes an imbecility of body as well as mind.29



27 posted on 06/23/2007 5:13:06 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: Lorianne

Definitions are the guardians of reason & logic. Men in Black have made careers out of attacking basic building blocks of thought/communication/life.


31 posted on 06/23/2007 6:09:00 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Lorianne

That’s ridiculous! Juries are not to determine the meaning of words. That’s Webster’s job. The jury was supposed to learn them in school, to use them as adults. Looks like the judge and atty’s in this case are on hard drugs and will be playing charades for the jury.


37 posted on 06/23/2007 7:11:30 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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