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To: Greg F
Here is one example with mosquitoes. The underground mosquitoes evolved since the subways were built.
45 posted on 06/25/2007 6:28:34 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes

Are they still mosquitoes?


52 posted on 06/25/2007 6:31:06 AM PDT by badgerbengal (Close the boarder and open fire!)
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To: ahayes

Thank you for the link regarding the mosquito. I will research it, am actually interested in this as opposed to axe grinding. Off the top of my head the main questions if this is a different species, as opposed to a micro-evolution, would be a) was this seperate species in existence before it took up in the London underground? b) if not was the speciation from loss of genetic material rather than gain or change (devolution rather than evolution)? c) if not, does it never breed with the non-molestus main species? From what I’ve read so far, in North America the Culex Pippiens group has hybridized, which indicates that the London molestus group may not be truly speciated . . . that it is only a subgroup of the larger species. It is probably very hard to breed a chihuahua with a Rottweiler but they are the same species.

If it truly is a different species I think that the 1st question (did the species exist before it was “discovered” in the London underground) is probably the hard one to overcome for the evolutionary theorist — simple proof of speciation in this instance would be hard to come by.


66 posted on 06/25/2007 6:54:45 AM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: ahayes

Actually, speciation is not clear here.

From the article you cited on the mosquito:

“In the light of these differences it is not surprising that some authorities have regarded the subterranean form as a distinct species C. molestus (Miles, 1977a,b; Miles & Patterson, 1979). On the other hand, many authors maintain that the pipiens and molestus forms are the same species, with any differences being purely physiological variation (e.g. Harbach et al., 1984). Between these two extremes are those who consider them as subspecies or semispecies (e.g. Urbanelli et al., 1981; Bullini, 1982). In this study no assumptions have been made about the taxonomic status of the two types of Culex. The terms pipiens and molestus form will be used to distinguish populations on the basis of the traits set out in Table 1.”

So this paper doesn’t prove speciation, it specifically says that speciation is not addressed and is debated. No proof of creation of one species from another. Do you have proof of one species becoming another species?


73 posted on 06/25/2007 7:17:40 AM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: ahayes

Still mosquito (sp?) isn’t it?


84 posted on 06/25/2007 7:33:31 AM PDT by Radioflyer
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