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Pulling the Plug: Ethicists Debate Ramirez Case
ABC News ^ | 6/28/07 | Dan Childs

Posted on 06/30/2007 1:29:17 PM PDT by wagglebee

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"This guy was not hopeless and in a persistent vegetative state by any means," says Dr. Steven Miles, professor of internal medicine and bioethics at the University of Minnesota Center for Bioethics. "It has no impact on the bigger debate of life support."

In other words, he wants people to forget about this as soon as possible because it interferes with the culture of death's agenda.

1 posted on 06/30/2007 1:29:21 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 06/30/2007 1:30:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; T'wit; floriduh voter; Sun; bjs1779

Jesse Ramirez Ping


3 posted on 06/30/2007 1:30:45 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ..
center> Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

4 posted on 06/30/2007 1:31:06 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
a little more than a week when doctors informed his wife that he may never recover -- and she made the decision to have his feeding and water tubes removed.

If he recovers to any major extent I imagine he's going to be quite Pissed.
5 posted on 06/30/2007 1:35:46 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: wagglebee

“He had been in this minimally-conscious state for a little more than a week when doctors informed his wife that he may never recover — and she made the decision to have his feeding and water tubes removed.”

I’ve known several people who have “awakened” from comas lasting much longer than a week - although their level of “recovery” varied considerably.


6 posted on 06/30/2007 1:45:38 PM PDT by asburygrad
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To: asburygrad

But had their spouses already gone to court to have them killed?


7 posted on 06/30/2007 1:47:15 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: kinoxi

>”This guy was not hopeless and in a persistent vegetative
>state by any means,” says Dr. Steven Miles, professor of
>internal medicine and bioethics at the University of
>Minnesota Center for Bioethics. “It has no impact on the
>bigger debate of life support.”

It does so. The doctors counted on playing God, and they counted wrong.

I wonder how many times they have counted people dead that had a chance?


8 posted on 06/30/2007 1:48:07 PM PDT by ROTB (Our Constitution...only for a [Christian] people...it is wholly inadequate for any other.-J.Q.Adams)
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To: ROTB

They pulled the plugs after one week?


9 posted on 06/30/2007 1:51:17 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: wagglebee
He had been in this minimally-conscious state for a little more than a week when doctors informed his wife that he may never recover -- and she made the decision to have his feeding and water tubes removed.

Ramirez's family made a legal appeal and won, and his feeding tubes were reconnected. Now, Ramirez has regained consciousness and recovered to the extent that he can interact with visitors.

What a nasty family fight. The wife said to have him die and other family members went to court to stop it. And how much more damage was done to him while his feeding tubes were removed?

Shades of the Schiavos, although not quite the same of course...

10 posted on 06/30/2007 2:04:08 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones

There’s an earlier thread on this. The accident occurred when the husband and wife were fighting in the car over an affair she was having. So wifey tried to off him, and the medical community complied, without questioning her motives. Lucky for him, his parents stepped in.


11 posted on 06/30/2007 2:10:17 PM PDT by Defiant (Hunter if we can; Thompson if we can't; Romney if we must, Rudy if we wanna lose.)
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To: kinoxi

Michael Schiavo started trying to kill Terri immediately after he got the money from the lawsuits.


12 posted on 06/30/2007 2:24:19 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Refresh my memory on the time line. This lady wanted to kill him a week after the initial accident. Insurance claims (RE Schiavo) tend to take more time than that in my experience.
13 posted on 06/30/2007 2:31:44 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

In this case, the wife would benefit from life insurance money. The injury was caused by a single car accident, which meant that there was nobody to sue. So, the sooner he died, the sooner she would benefit.

In Terri’s case, Michael Schiavo sued the hospital and doctors for his “loss of companionship” and medical malpractice (as Terri’s guardian). He was given an award for the loss of companionship (which was ironic because he was living with another woman, who is now his wife) and Terri was awarded money for rehabilitation. He used Terri’s money to pay lawyers to kill her.

http://judgegeorgegreer.com/


14 posted on 06/30/2007 2:37:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

That seems to be an in depth link. Your synopsis was more than adequate. Thank you.


15 posted on 06/30/2007 2:41:49 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: wagglebee

Schiavo’s autopsy showed severe brain degeneration, with the brain shrunken and weighing half what it should have. Michael Schiavo’s motives may or may not have been benevolent but she wasn’t going to get better.


16 posted on 06/30/2007 2:56:37 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Grut

A lot of that is disputed and some of it is certainly the result of over a decade of neglect followed by thirteen days of starvation and dehydration.

http://terrisfight.org/mainlinks.php?tablesingle=main_terri_story&id=2
http://terrisfight.org/mainlinks.php?tablesingle=main_terri_story&id=7
http://judgegeorgegreer.com/


17 posted on 06/30/2007 3:01:14 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
It's surprising that the doctors would allow discontinuation of life support at such an early stage. I see a big malpractice suit in their future.

I found this line of the article very interesting: " Parents tend to make decisions based on what they can live with, rather than what the patient would want." At least for me, that is absolutely true. My wife would do what she thought I would want, whereas my parents would only be thinking of what would make them the most comfortable.

18 posted on 06/30/2007 8:20:14 PM PDT by kozokey
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


19 posted on 07/01/2007 3:40:49 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: kinoxi

They were talking about it for a week, and the husband’s family protested.


20 posted on 07/01/2007 7:24:29 PM PDT by ROTB (Our Constitution...only for a [Christian] people...it is wholly inadequate for any other.-J.Q.Adams)
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