Posted on 07/10/2007 5:49:56 AM PDT by Kitten Festival
Competition: After Boeing unveiled its new 787 Dreamliner, rival Airbus did the noble thing: It congratulated the U.S. jet maker. If Airbus really wants to be noble, however, it should give up its government subsidies.
(Excerpt) Read more at ibdeditorials.com ...
Boeing, which is booked full through 2014, begins delivering its fuel-stingy plane in 2008; Airbus, after numerous delays, won't even begin delivering until 2013. And even that date might slip.
If Airbus delivers the A350XWB in 2013, I will eat my hat. There is no way in the World they can deliver this thing on that schedule. The A350XWB is still in the pretty picture stage, and will remain so until the problems with the A380 are resolved, if they are resolved.
Some argue from a legitimate, free-market standpoint that we should accept the subsidy as, in essence, a gift to U.S. and world consumers. But they miss the point. The subsidies have created what economists call deadweight losses in the market. This hurts consumers and companies by distorting economic decisions that should be made on one basis and one basis only: profit.
When you have lemons, you make lemonade. The Europeans are going to subsidize Airbus no matter what anybody says, so Boeings job is to beat them anyway. Ultimately, the subsidies will sink Airbus by making them less agile and more prone to mistakes, as with the A380.
Has the Boeing flown yet?
Result? The Hamburg factories built a wiring harness that wouldn't fit because their software give them subtly different dimensions on their CAD systems...
They have made Boeing more competitive in the process, but they've also driven much of the company offshore. There have been costs to America, but there are also benefits.
Nope. It was just unveiled last weekend.
But there were no negative reprecussions from the screw-up. Nobody got fired. So they were right in their assessment.
One of my favorite parts of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is when Douglas Adams discusses the operation of the Somebody Else's Problem Field (SEPF). Adams explains that actually cloaking something to make it invisible is extraordinarily complex and takes lots of machinery and energy, but convincing anybody who sees something out of place that that something is somebody else's problem is very easy indeed, and that an SEPF capable of hiding an entire planet can be powered by one nine-volt battery for a year.
“They have made Boeing more competitive in the process, but they’ve also driven much of the company offshore. There have been costs to America, but there are also benefits”
It was going to happen anyway. Airbus was promising manufacturing jobs in exchange for orders. Boeing is essentially doing the same thing, but is being way smarter about it.
Exporting jobs to Italy and Japan is an economic benefit to Boeing, in that it props up the demand for air travel among the middle class. It’s not like we sent all the jobs to China.
Never happen.
Airbust is a socialized job creation program first, and business second.
True, it's like Boeing ripped off the people who developed those manufacturing systems. It's an exportation of intellectual capital with little prospect of a return to its developers.
Slice the numbers anyway you want to, Boeing is gaining employees not loosing them despite outsourcing the fabrication of much of the 787 body sections.
Boeing Employment numbers
Commercial Airplanes
Jan 2006 50,309
Jan 2007 56,782
June 2007 60,370
The wiring was just one of many problems with the A380. The big one, and the one Airbust refuses to publically admit is that the A380 came in several tons overweight than what they contractually promised to their buyers.
They now have to scramble to find ways to lighten the plane at their own cost or pay massive penalties to its customers. The delays in delivery dates (some customers will be getting their planes two or more years later than promised) has allowed the customers to already demand additional compensation.
Airbust would have to sell atleast 600 A380’s to even break even at this point. The number is probably even higher given the discounts they are providing for any customer ordering more or willing to push back delivery dates for years.
And this doesn’t even take into account the fact that they had to scrap the freighter version for years due to all the customers backing out after the delays on that program as well. The Schroeder government allowed enviromental wackos to hold up construction of the Airbust
Ah, the old metric conversion problem.
In this case, East Frankish metric to West Frankish metric.
I think the first flight is scheduled for sometime around Sept.
I've love the concept of an SEP field ever since I first read it. It is amazing how well they work.
They now have to scramble to find ways to lighten the plane at their own cost or pay massive penalties to its customers.
A380 with 200 seats?
That would be losing not "loosing."
Now, to the point of my post, please post domestic manufacturing numbers, not total global employees. I never said Boeing wasn't a growing company; I said it was growing globally in part at the expense of domestic employment.
BTW, they also employ Russian engineers to the tune of at least $5 billion by 2030, so not only are they outsourcing domestic manufacturing technology, it's design process technology as well, but hey, don't worry your little head about any potential military implications. We'll have the infrastructure to defend ourselves no matter what... well, maybe not.
You want domestic, I give you domestic
Washington State (Where we assemble the planes)
Jan 2006 62,842
Jan 2007 68,570
June 2007 71,353
They have to do things like composite materials for the interiors (seat frames, gallyes, food carts, etc..). Anything to lighten the plane. But those are expensive and will heavily cut into their profit margins. The airlines won’t foot the bill for those. Airbust will have too.
You’re misinformed.
Boeing is holding key technologies VERY close to the vest. What they’ve pulled off here is astonishing. They are also extremely well informed as to what China represents as a threat and an opportunity. Both Japan and China have entertained their own thoughts about starting a heavy aircraft manufacturing company, and Boeing is extremely sensitive to it.
Japan has had its problems in meeting their deadlines, as have the Italians. It has been VERY interesting to see the combination of horsewhipping and cajoling that has gone on by the Supply Chain Managers in terms of keeping them both on schedule.
That Italy actually made its deadlines is astonishing.
You make it sound like Boeing is a non-profit who stole ideas from their volunteers and then posted them on a blog somewhere.
For the first time in a very long time, the 787 is the first plane that is selling because it has a distinct competitive advantage over Airbus. For the last twelve years, aircraft sales have been as much political as they were about better value proposition.
Even staunch Airbussers are buying the plane because they essentially have no choice. 20% advantage in fuel costs? How do you compete with that with an all airbus fleet?
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