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To: wagglebee
I'll answer your stupid question.

The slipperly slope is knowledge vs. intent. Every day, hundreds of terminally ill undergo pain management that everyone knows will hasten death. The purpose --intent-- is not to hasten, but to provide comfort, But the effect is still hastening.

People aren't answering you because they suspect you'll claim "knowledge" is "intent." And it's not.

Pain is a bad thing. Federal agencies are right now harassing hospitals because they do not treat pain aggressively. Hospital policies are forever having to swing back and forth between the accusation of "pusher" and "not caring enough about pain." One day the licensing guys are showing up "people are hurting" and the DEA says the next day "you're giving drugs to drug-seekers. Knock it off or we'll hassle you."

Nothing I've read even suggests to me that murder is going on. But anyone who knows about the dangers of long-term pain management for the suffering knows that aggressive management will hasten death.

SO wagglebee. Is knowledge intent?

The drips were probably not working due to the conditions. Likely the personnel had to administer by hand what they were used to administering by programmed technology.

Just remember--the spite you show to pain-mangement today may be policy tomorrow that you don't like very much.

It says everything to me that they stuck around. I'll bet the lawyers high-tailed it before they even checked their answering machines.

44 posted on 07/25/2007 5:28:28 PM PDT by Mamzelle (Down with Mel Martinez)
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To: Mamzelle
pain management that everyone knows will hasten death. The purpose --intent-- is not to hasten, but to provide comfort, But the effect is still hastening.

Does the patient know and consent to this, or is this a dirty little secret that we can't let the patient in on because they just might queer the whole deal by refusing to agree to die?
56 posted on 07/25/2007 5:44:25 PM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Mamzelle; hophead; P-40

From you all I have seen articulate, rational, thoughtful posts. From some of the others, just angry hysterical rants about ‘murder” and “slippery slopes” and then real screaming about “THOSE DOCTORS WANTED TO KILL THOSE PATIENTS!”

One thing that is clear from the ones hurling names like “pscyho” to us...they sure don’t want an intelligent discussion, have no connection or experience personally or professionally in terminal care and pain management. What is really sickening is that their ‘merciful” stance doesn’t give a d..n about patient suffering.

Moreover, by their attacks on doctors managing pain, they hasten societal ‘euthanasia”. As Forrest Gump said, “Stupid is as Stupid does.”


61 posted on 07/25/2007 5:54:36 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (The truth about men who watch or set up dogfights.......they can't get it up !)
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To: Mamzelle

Amen! Nice to see there are a few logical heads on this thread. Pain management in the country has become damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

If a grand jury would usually indict a ham sandwich and they DIDN’T INDICT in this case, doesn’t that just scream that THERE WASN’T A CASE! (I’m not shouting at you, Mamzelle, but the idjits here who jump on every thread and parrot “culture of death, culture of death” without knowing squat about the situation and are totally ignorant of healthcare).


100 posted on 07/25/2007 6:36:19 PM PDT by Spyder
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