Posted on 07/29/2007 3:23:40 AM PDT by restornu
I well remember the Mormon-bashing threads and JR’s intervention.
Chill, people. I understand the theological disagreements some have, but few of us can have any problem with today’s Mormons themselves, as they are known for laudable lifestyles and attitudes that any of us should admire. That includes Romney. Let’s find someone and something else to bash and avoid the fratricide. May I suggest the cult of Marxism or any of its many branches and tributaries, and your pick of Hillary, Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Soros, Kerry, Gore, Sheehan, Waxman, Moore, Streisand...
That won't work.
Truth by itself is exclusive. Two contradictory statements cannot both be correct, or else truth itself is a casualty. This is the law of Non-Contradiction.
The problem is that one side of the debate may call truth "bigotry."
Either there is a spirited debate here, or there is not. Moreover, I have no problem posting my beliefs of biblical Christianity and being challenged on them. Anyone is free to do that here as far as I am concerned.
I’m not really sticking up for Mormonism, but you might need to know that “meetinghouses” or “meeting house” has a very long historical use. It’s use is not a contemporary trend at all.
The idea behind its use is often to make a differentiation between the Church which is the congregation of the believers and the physical building.
For too long, people have treated the churches’ buildings as though they are the churches. There is no New Testament instruction to any church to construct a dedicated building in which to meet. There is no Scriptural mandate at all to construct facilities for New Testament churches. It’s nice to be out of the rain while worshiping, but dedicated facilities are not required by New Testament Christianity.
In older generations the buildings were often called “church house.” On an old stone building in England from the early 17th century is engraved, “Phillip’s Chapel—the Meeting House of the Baptist Church.” (about 1650)
I would be more concerned about their doctrines than about what they call their buildings.
If you got hate mail you must have push someone’s button awfully hard and by your tone here it would not take much!
But than you are just nice guy....
Why should it matter to you if people hear both side and than make up there minds if what is being said is so?
BBL
I expect to have debate with people who are not afraid to question a particular
religious view. I hope everyone would question any religious views because this is
what the forum is all about.
I think it's important to aknowledge facts and falsehoods.
My point was to criticize the double standard regarding different religions. Why should criticism of one religion be allowed, but criticism of another be suppressed?
I am a center-right Pagan. i go to Pagan festivals with witch’s,Druids etc. (you would be surprised at all of the right leaning Pagans I meet). I respect Mormons, Christians and all other religions except Islam. I believe all religions are linked together. I respect Christianity including the Mormons. Although, I sometimes chide conservative Christians for not remembering that not all of us are of their faith I sincerely respect them. They are the religion of the common people in this country and anyone can see that there values have been a good thing for this country.
I don't think it is supression as much as it is revealing facts. But my main point is making know obvious falsity is not the same as criticism. I think your point is well taken, I just wanted to clarify the difference.
All religions are faith based, however not all religions can back up their claims.
*snicker*
When arriving do you unstrap the dog from ontop of the family station wagon or do you leave it on top for the service ? Mitt ?? Mitt ?? Oh Mitt ?????
“FReeperitically correct (bashing not allowed):
Baptists...”
Baptists bash each other enough ;^)
You forgot Scientology!
Now THAT would be one long discussion, but I need to get ready for church.
Keep Smilin'...makes 'em worry what you're up to!
At what point in the ceremony is the koolaid passed around?
What jumps out at me is there is absolutely no mention of the Bible.
well there is only one religion on that list... the rest of ya’ll are going straight to H-E-double hockey sticks....roflmao
just read your post.... you are going to heaven and the rest are going to that other place... I’m a papist also.
First of all, I suggest a quick trip to this YouTube link to listen to an interesting talk by a mormon at:
If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17).
Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is “a” god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian — in spite of all his claims that he is.
The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed. But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5), that God has eternally been God (Psalm 90:2) — which means he was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected.
The Bible tells us that Jesus The Jesus of Mormonism is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus, is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn’t exist.
Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness.
Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, “The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil,” (Articles, p. 432), and “Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience,” (Articles, p. 81). This contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).
To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teaches it is by faith alone. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.
This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn’t trustworthy.
The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church.
Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not. They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it instead of letting it speak for itself. For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean “no other gods of this world” - which is not what those verses say. They do not trust the Bible and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly.
CARM does not deny that Mormons are good people, that they worship “a” god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things.
But that isn’t what makes someone Christian. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, “ Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (NKJV).
Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus — not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism. Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone. Return to Mormonism
CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS AND RESEARCH MINISTRY
Copyright Matthew J. Slick, 1996 - 2006
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