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To: liberallarry
What a shame indeed... there are other adjectives you could have chosen so that your post would remain. LOL!

I, for one, do not discount the Arab complaints of the Jewish settlements. They complainted repeatedly against the Ottoman's policies in Palestine brought forth by representatives to the Porte as soon as the Aliyah started. The Ottomans chose to ignore Palestinian complaints in favor of continuing land sales to the Zionists.

Legally though, the Palestinians had little to stand on. They sold the land to the effendis. The fact that they believed they still had a title to these lands was somewhat naive. But it was the way it was. The Jews had a bill of sale and the land was their both legally and with the express permission of the Ottomans, who allowed the sales and encouraged Jewish immigration.

No, Jabotinsky did not found the Jewish legions. Bar Giora organization was founded in 1907 in the home of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who was David Ben Gurion's right hand man. From within these communes of workers and guards Hashomer was founded in 1909 to defend the moshavs and kibbutzim from the Arabs.

In 1920 the Haganah was formed as a "grassroots" military organization. The Haganah along with the Palmach became the IDF in 1948.

In 1931 a group of Haganah members seceded from the organization, which was headed by Avraham Tehomi. This breakaway groiund was known as the Irgun or Etzel. This organization received the full backing of Ze'ev Jabotinsky's Revisionist Party.

I disagree with your interpretation.Well, that is certainly allowed, but besides your fascination with Mr. Jabotinsky's writings, the tensions between Jews and Arabs were a slow boil brought on mainly by British policies. The 1920 riots and the White Paper of 1922 would be more important in the context of history than your reliance on Jabotinsky's writings.

But let us not deceive ourselves. The violence directed at the Jews was due to the fact that the Muslims could not tolerate the Zionists, their socialist ideals, and the fear that rising Jewish immigration would mean Arab land would be used for a Jewish state. What Jabotinsky wrote in 1923 would come to pass in 1948, but I think it is wrong to impose The Iron Wall on the Histadrut at the time Jabotinsky wrote it. In fact, Jabotinsky was labelled an extremist and his ideas discounted. His approach was not the politics of the Jewish Agency until the Arab riots of 1936, the White Paper of 1939, and of course the Holocaust, which would change everything.

PS - You sound like a man who has read Avi Schlaim!

62 posted on 08/01/2007 11:10:57 AM PDT by carton253 (And if that time does come, then draw your swords and throw away the scabbards.)
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To: carton253
No, I have not read Avi Schlaim. I found Zhabotinsky quite by accident in some Internet search and was completely fascinated by his insight, his prescience, his courage.

Legally though, the Palestinians had little to stand on

So much for legality. The Ottomans forced Arab farmers to sell their lands, then sold them to Jews. The Arabs didn't like the Turks, but they liked the Jews even less. Everyone had good reasons for doing what they did.

No, Jabotinsky did not found the Jewish legions

Even if what you say is technically true Zhabotinsky played a major role in their organization and use in WWI...and his influence hardly disappeared in the interwar period.

...the tensions between Jews and Arabs were a slow boil brought on mainly by British policies...But let us not deceive ourselves. The violence directed at the Jews was due to the fact that the Muslims could not tolerate the Zionists, their socialist ideals, and the fear that rising Jewish immigration would mean Arab land would be used for a Jewish state.

Here you contradict yourself...

What Jabotinsky wrote in 1923 would come to pass in 1948

Here you admit to Zhabotinsky's importance

but I think it is wrong to impose The Iron Wall on the Histadrut at the time Jabotinsky wrote it. In fact, Jabotinsky was labelled an extremist and his ideas discounted. His approach was not the politics of the Jewish Agency until the Arab riots of 1936, the White Paper of 1939, and of course the Holocaust, which would change everything.

And here you show how wrong the socialist were, how intolerant they were, and how, ultimately untruthful and unwilling to admit error.

They behaved the same way all over the world.

63 posted on 08/01/2007 11:32:16 AM PDT by liberallarry
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