Posted on 08/01/2007 9:26:48 AM PDT by WesternCulture
Cause I'd like to see you out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks.
Ohhhh (breathless), I’m in love!!! ;)
- I’m not scared of EU becoming a superpower. It will work in close cooperation with the US and other allies like Japan, South Korea, Australia etc.
In several areas, especially in terms of economy, Europe needs to integrate more. Our national differences as well as our national sovereignty will be preserved, even if we manage to bring about increased trade levels and more competition through deregulation, more homogeneous legislation and joint efforts in the area of infrastructures (Autobahns, bitte!).
A great thing about EU membership that few people seem aware of is that IF a single country does NOT wish to comply with any ‘supranational’ decree, it can simply refuse to do so without suffering any consequences. However, in the case of the Euro, national budgets have to meet with certain requirements (in terms of national debt not reaching certain percentage levels of the GDP) or the countries will (in theory) get fined, but, on the other hand, what happened when Germany, Italy and France failed in this department recently? Nothing.
Europeans of today have nothing to fear from each other.
A strong USA and a strong EU are warranties for a strong Western Civilization.
It will work in close cooperation with the US and other allies like Japan, South Korea, Australia etc.
Yes, like on Iraq, or Iran's nuclear ambitions, or.....
In several areas, especially in terms of economy, Europe needs to integrate more. Our national differences as well as our national sovereignty will be preserved, even if we manage to bring about increased trade levels and more competition through deregulation....
You don't have to integrate to trade. Think Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea......
What is happening is that we allow another layer of bureaucrats to micromanage our societies. Always a perfect road to success and prosperity. (yes - sarcasm intended!)
A great thing about EU membership that few people seem aware of is that IF a single country does NOT wish to comply with any ‘supranational’ decree, it can simply refuse to do so without suffering any consequences
Yes, if you are one of the large ones (Germany, France maybe the UK), but look at Ireland who was not allowed to cut its taxes or Portugal who was fined and had to institute an austerity program.
True, there are some countries that are better (hmm) at following the EU regulations than others. But do you really want every country to act like Italy in respect to its laws?
Anyway the Eu will soon get its own public prosecutor, who will be able to initiate investigations according to the EUObserver.
Quite honestly, these days Swedish young conservatives are as blind when it comes to the EU as their liberal/left wing compatriots where when viewing Cuba or Nicaragua in the 70s and 80s.
- I don’t consider myself an expert, but just because I arrive at different conclusions than you doesn’t mean I’m ignorant in this field, does it?
“Yes, like on Iraq, or Iran’s nuclear ambitions, or.....”
- Most EU countries cooperate with the US in the WOT. There will always be disagreements of all sorts, but The EU will remain one of the closest, if not THE closest, of USA’s allies.
“You don’t have to integrate to trade. Think Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea......”
- No, of course not, but there are many unnecessary, unnatural hinders to free trade today in Europe. These barriers create friction and slow down overall economic expansion. We must continue down the road of harmonization and integration. That was, in many ways, what the Hansa basically was all about and the member cities grew rich from the increased trade levels this cooperation created.
Increased harmonization, increased integration and deregulation will create a more stable and predictable business environment and promote investments as well as competition.
The situation we’re experiencing today is like each European country having their own football rules. It doesn’t guarantee national sovereignty, it is WEAKENING our nations. These structures will have to go, because they evidently have failed. Much of the European production capacity is not realized.
What to do?
To begin with, all of the EU should introduce the Euro. I’ll give you a simple argument for this.
Let’s have a look at the US. If each and every state had its own currency, would the US, as a whole, benefit from it? Of course not. Such an idea would be considered as sheer stupidity by most people. So why should Europeans keep on behaving in a stupid way in this area? Our economy is almost as integrated as its American counterpart is, so why maintain artificial hinders like different currencies?
Provinsiellt sugrörsseende (Provincially minded drinking straw vision).
A country like Sweden will not become less Swedish in case we’d introduce the Euro. It’s true that our national bank and our government would exercise less influence over Swedish economy, but what is that loss of power actually about? I’d say nothing important compared to an annual increase of say, 0,2-0,5% in GDP growth (an estimation one, naturally, could feel skeptical towards). If it doesn’t work out well, we could always reintroduce the SEK.
“Yes, if you are one of the large ones (Germany, France maybe the UK), but look at Ireland who was not allowed to cut its taxes or Portugal who was fined and had to institute an austerity program.”
- This is probably true to some extent, but if I’m not mistaken, Portugal didn’t even manage to present a proper plan of how they would deal with their deficit. Correct me if I’m wrong. Sweden would be trickier to clamp down on as we are one of the ‘net financiers’ of the EU. Furthermore, what could any other country or supranational body of the EU possibly do if any member state simply refused to pay fines? The EU could, of course, withhold EU subsidies/grants, but that wouldn’t work with a net financier like Sweden. We could just stop paying our EU fees.
A net receiver would just lose the difference if they did the same thing.
In real life, EU membership is very little of a straight-jacket and will continue to be so. No European country is interested in enslaving any other European nation. The member states of the EU are rapidly moving away from the destructive mutual relations we nurtured in the past to each other.
“True, there are some countries that are better (hmm) at following the EU regulations than others. But do you really want every country to act like Italy in respect to its laws?”
Despite Berlusconi and some traditional structures of Italian business life, Italy has become much less corrupt during the last decades. Most Italians wish for a continuation of these changes and they often view the countries “north of the Alps” as model societies (even though they, rightfully, take great pride in their own cultural achievements throughout history).
“Anyway the Eu will soon get its own public prosecutor, who will be able to initiate investigations according to the EUObserver.”
- Nothing wrong with that. Again, if a country doesn’t want to bother about charges or fines, no one can force them to. Being a EU member state is something very different from being a citizen of a country in terms of crime and punishment.
I about died of laughter the first time I heard that song on the radio. XD
In case you haven’t seen it (and in case I’m allowed to be trifle patriotic), here’s a nice Jonsered video;
http://www.tilton.usa.jonsered.com/Files/Jonsered/cs/downloads/videos/WhyStayOrdinary.wmv
Personally, I like the soundtrack, the toys featured and furthermore, some of the babes are actually pretty ok too..
By the way, ‘Jonsered’ is the name of a certain Gothenburg (Sweden’s second city) suburb, situated something like 3 miles from where I live.
“That stuff would take the chrome off a trailer hitch.”
Sounds like some women I’ve heard about...
Your statements reveal your ignorance.
Just a few points:
The Hanseatic League was a trade monopoly. It was not about harmonization and integration but against free trade. There are likenesses with the EU but nothing that one should be proud about.
The Euro - well, we had a referendum 4 years ago. The Swedish economy has developed better than the rest of the EU, and so have the economies of Britain and Denmark who also have their own currencies.
There was a report published recently stating that our economy would have been even better had we changed to the Euro currency. It has been roundly, and correctly criticized for a number of methodological errors, and its predictions are probably no more valid than the predictions that Sweden would always have higher interest rates than the Euro countries - as you know that has not been the case.
If the European production capacity is not used to its full extent that can hardly be blamed on Sweden not joining the Euro? Try faulty macroeconomic policies and bureaucratic micromanagement of the economy on local, national, and EU-level.
To first enter the Euro and then leave would be a very, very expensive experiment. If you are willing to pay for that I suggest you change your assets into Euros and move to Italy and stay there until Italy crashes out of the Eurozone. (OK, it is a guess that they will be the first ones - but it is pretty safe bet.)
It is possible that Sweden would not be pressured into accepting certain judgments by the Community Court, but our politicians are always worried they will lose political capital....
As for the EU public prosecutor, that has nothing to do with the nations but with individuals. Wake up and smell the coffee.....
Regarding the foreign policy I leave that comment to someone who knows these things far better than I (though both I and most other commentators on FR agrees with John Bolton):
- This is getting more and more ridiculous. So far, you haven’t proved me wrong with any facts whatsoever, so in what way has my ‘ignorance’ been revealed?
What, sooner, is ‘revealed’ is the transparency of your rhetoric.
Please perform some sort of analysis of my arguments instead.
“The Hanseatic League was a trade monopoly. It was not about harmonization and integration but against free trade. There are likenesses with the EU but nothing that one should be proud about.”
- (Sigh) Everyone in our part of the world knows it was a supranational organization consisting in a trading alliance between rich and influential cities.
Few experts would deny trade and production was boosted immensely under its existence (at least till its decline began). Personally, I would say a major reason to this is that the Hansa provided the guilds and merchants with a stable business environment. You’re wrong in saying it was NOT about harmonization and integration. Harmonization and integration is what guilds basically is all about and the Hanseatic league could well be viewed as a ‘super-guild’.
I’m not saying the Hansa ought to be the model for a new Europe, what I’m saying is that harmonization and integration has worked very well before in European history and that examples such as the Hanseatic League and the German ‘Zollverein’ of the 19th century are relevant as it would be very difficult to deny that they are closely tied to the massive economical upheaval of their times.
To believe that the Hanseatic League and the German ‘Zollverein’, out of some reason, was the right concept for trade during their epochs, while harmonization and integration is NOT the right path for Europe of today seems strange to me.
How could national isolation possibly expand trade and promote investments on European soil?
“The Euro - well, we had a referendum 4 years ago. The Swedish economy has developed better than the rest of the EU, and so have the economies of Britain and Denmark who also have their own currencies.”
- This doesn’t indicate that the Euro counteracts economic growth. If it did, why has the economic growth of the ‘Eurozone’ begun to catch up with the GDP growth rates of The UK, Scandinavia and the US SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE EURO?
Another question:
If the Euro does not promote economic development, how come
Finland and Ireland, which both have joined the Euro, enjoy the highest GDP growth rates of Western Europe?
Sweden performs well without the Euro. Our economy grew by around 5% last year. Finland’s economy grew by appr 6%.
I admit that a lot of Euro advocates exaggerate the benefits of introducing the Euro, but it’s still plausible that the Eurozone countries have gained from having a common, single currency.
“To first enter the Euro and then leave would be a very, very expensive experiment.”
- If it took place during a period of 5 years, yes, in a period of 20 years, no (if we’re looking solely at the cost of switching from one currency to another and then switching back again).
“It is possible that Sweden would not be pressured into accepting certain judgments by the Community Court, but our politicians are always worried they will lose political capital....”
- Then the problem is with our politicians and not with the EU per se.
“As for the EU public prosecutor, that has nothing to do with the nations but with individuals. Wake up and smell the coffee.....”
- Of course it has to do with nations.
To begin with, such an office would interfere with/aid NATIONAL laws and jurisdiction, which also is the basic idea behind the Eurojust agency ( http://www.eurojust.europa.eu/index.htm ).
Secondly, the state itself is a LEGAL ENTITY (’juridisk person’ in Swedish) in most, if not every, juridical systems in existence. I hardly think single EU member states or governments will be excluded from the sphere of influence that a EU public prosecutor would dispose of, even if the PRIME target is thought to be criminal activities of ‘natural persons’. If I’ve gotten it all wrong, please correct me.
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